The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
penquin
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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby penquin » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:10 am

fflambeau wrote:A vote for Stein is a vote for Trump.


How so?

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:50 am

Galoot wrote:
When did he say that? In fact, in his testimony to Congress, Comey specifically said that she neither lied, nor broke the law.


I wonder if we are talking about the same James Comey? Tall guy, used to be with HSBC, now with FBI? Testified before Congress last week?

What he did say was that Crooked Hilary had no intention of breaking the laws. Not that she did not break them. Rep Gowdy, and others, have pointed out that the relevant law not require intent. He, and others, also pointed out that Crooked Hilary by her actions actively demonstrated intent to violate the law.

Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information...


...

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past.


...

To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.


https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press ... ail-system

Emphasis added.

As for whether he said that she lied, while he did not use that specific term, he contradicted most of Crooked Hilary's statements on the matter. He did this both in his statement Tuesday and his testimony Thursday. Here is a mashup some of Crooked Hilary's statements on the matter and then Comey explaining why each was untrue:

http://adam.curry.com/enc/1467922005.786_hillaryclintonvs.jamescomey-emailscandalsupercut2.mp3

The mp3 should play automatically when clicked.

So back to you, Galoot.

[Edited to fix quote issue]

John Henry
Last edited by johnfajardohenry on Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:27 am

I am currently about halfway through a biography of Russian spymistress Elizabeth Bentley (Clever Girl by Lauren Kessler. Pretty interesting so far). In 1945 she came clean to the FBI and gave them the names of 100 or so govt employees who had passed classified information to her and others that was then passed on to the Russians.

I got to thinking about some parallels between Bentley and Crooked Hilary while on my evening constitutional. Not that Crooked Hilary was a spy, I certainly do not think that. More about the FBI, evidence and prosecution.

The FBI was particularly interested in seeing about 15 of the most egregious violators prosecuted. There is a chapter that mostly deals with the almost year long discussions about whether to prosecute, how to prosecute and chances of success. There was no doubt then or now about whether they were guilty. They had lots of evidence. The problem was whether the evidence could be used and whether it would stand up in court. Some of it was technically hearsay, other evidence may have been or clearly was collected illegally.

The most damning evidence was in the Venona Transcripts. These were decrypted Russian communiques that discussed the people they wanted to prosecute and what they had been doing. (Bentley was codenamed "Clever Girl" hence the book's title) If they used this, it would reveal that they had this capability and it would compromise diplomacy. These were finally declassified in the 90s

One of the things Comey said was:

She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries. Given that combination of factors, we assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail account.


I wonder how much the FBI is saying and not telling? If they knew that Crooked Hilary's servers were breached by China, NoKo, Russia or whoever, would they say? Doing so might reveal capabilities not currently known and might have decided that it it was too valuable to reveal.

Might the FBI have evidence collected against Hilary that would not stand up in court?

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:33 pm

"Where have all the good jobs gone...." sung to the tune of "Where have all the flowers gone." Remember Obama's preposterous 2008 promise to help create 3,000,000 new Green industrial jobs? A good idea, but it turned out to be another of Obie's hollow talking points. And what of the grand flip-flopper, Hilly, who first supported the TPP, but now claims to oppose it? Almost as fickle as John Kerry in 2004. Hillary's proven record of mendacity is scarcely any better than Trump's - she lies like hell, in the truest Clintonian style. Anybody who has unwarranted faith in what the Clintons claim they can or will deliver, is setting him/herself up for a delusionally-induced disappointment. With the exception, of course, of more and more war, more and more juicy contracts for Hilly's military-industrial buddies. On that score, we can count on her to deliver just what she proposes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magaz ... .html?_r=0

BTW, Hillary Clinton's Facebook page is open for comment, even from the disloyal opposition, me included. I was sure I'd be required to "like" it, in order to pontificate. And comment I have, not biting my fingernails while I worry I might be feeding the Trump camp any additional ammunition. After all, I've vehemently opposed Trump for many moons, on Facebook and many other venues - yet with each blast I (and others) make, Camp Trump only seems to get stronger and more influential. Strange, strange indeed.

On the other hand, there's this. I guess we can have it both ways. The polling gap is narrowing, yet Trump is in trouble. Troubling!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/12 ... l-analysis

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:36 pm

http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/02/05/ ... ed-emails/

... former Secretary of State–Colin Powell–who has also seen some of his emails retroactively classified. Powell said he agrees with Clinton that all of their emails–every single one of them–should be declassified and released to the public: I wish they would release them, so that a normal, air-breathing mammal would look at them and say, ‘What’s the issue?’ They were unclassified at the time, and they are, in my judgment, still unclassified.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby gargantua » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:51 pm

fflambeau wrote:Hillary has moved to the left on the questions of college tuition, single payer, the minimum wage, and more. She is far more progressive than Russ Feingold, who has been mostly silent on everything but the fact that Ron Johnson is a "bad" senator. I have no problem in supporting Clinton. A vote for Stein is a vote for Trump.

Consider the possibility that Clinton may have no compunction about making promises she knows she can't/won't keep, while Feingold is much less likely to make hollow promises.
And a vote for Stein is a vote for Stein. It doesn't add to Trump's vote count any more than staying home would.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:19 pm

gargantua wrote:And a vote for Stein is a vote for Stein. It doesn't add to Trump's vote count any more than staying home would.

Yup. And as someone who thinks voting for Stein is foolish and short-sighted, I sure wish people would stop making this incredibly stupid argument. It's easy enough to spot the fallacy when applied to anything other then an election. If you go to a wedding dinner where the choices are chicken and fish but you opt to eat veggie lasagna instead, have you somehow still chosen chicken or fish? And would you take seriously anyone who insists that you had?

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby gargantua » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:38 pm

I used to think voting 3rd party was foolish and short-sighted. After having to face increasingly bad choices over the course of 11 presidential elections I no longer feel that way. I am aware that this will draw some scorn, and I'm willing to live with it. I'm just tired of being dished up crap every four years, and am declining additional servings.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:45 pm

You sound like a Naderite back in 2000. The result was Shock and Awe.

gargantua
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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby gargantua » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:11 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:You sound like a Naderite back in 2000. The result was Shock and Awe.

Yeah, I know. Tough. We could get that with either of these nominees.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:16 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:You sound like a Naderite back in 2000. The result was Shock and Awe.


With all due respect Henry, and I do indeed respect your formidable intelligence and perspicacity....
I certainly would have chosen Jimmy Carter over Ronald Reagan in 1980, but I was still just shy of eighteen. But Hillary Clinton is NO Jimmy Carter, even. I did vote for Bill Clinton in 1992, but not in '96. As relatively good as the "Clinton Economy" was in the early-mid '90's, it wasn't enough of a reason to again support a guy who only waited until he was in office three or four months before he bombed Baghdad. Then there was Janet Reno's fiasco at WACO that resulted in the burning alive of 70+ people, including a lot of hapless kids; all those draconian laws passed by Congress, supported by "Bill," as his supporters called him - had they sat down with the guy and actually had a beer with him!? - that came down the pike in the wake of the Oklahoma City Bombing, the passage of NAFTA in 1993, the December '98 bombing that Bill carried out over a barely-recovering Baghdad in order to muddy the waters surrounding his impending impeachment.... and many other goodies that really put me off. I proudly voted for Nader in '96 AND 2000.

(I realize I've previously posted this incredible little book - by Christopher Hitchens, who gravely offended me later, when he supported Bush's Iraq War, as did Hillary - but it's SO illuminating on the subject of the downside of all things Clintonesque.)
"No One Left to Lie to; The Values of the Worst Family:"
https://books.google.com/books?id=VGSzt ... on&f=false

So, just in case anyone wants to resuscitate the false argument that I helped put the rightly despised GW Bush in the White House, it would be wise to remember 300,000+ registered Dems also voted for Ralph Nader that year, and 24.000+ of that same cadre actually voted for W!
"The Nader Myth:"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6 ... Nader-Myth
Last edited by IU2Bmanoletters on Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:25 pm

gargantua wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:You sound like a Naderite back in 2000. The result was Shock and Awe.

Yeah, I know. Tough. We could get that with either of these nominees.

Trump is an out and out fascist. Clinton, not so much.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby fflambeau » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:08 pm

I am actually surprised, and pleased, that Clinton has embraced a very progressive Democratic party platform. It calls for a single payer alternative, a raise in the minimum wage to $15 an hour, bolstering Social Security, and more. Bernie Sanders chief strategist has said the platform accepted 80% of what the Sanders people wanted.

Clinton will be a great President.

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:18 pm

gargantua wrote:I used to think voting 3rd party was foolish and short-sighted. After having to face increasingly bad choices over the course of 11 presidential elections I no longer feel that way. I am aware that this will draw some scorn, and I'm willing to live with it. I'm just tired of being dished up crap every four years, and am declining additional servings.

No scorn from me. I get where you're coming from. I just think stopping Trump should be the #1 priority for anyone who actually gives a shit about this country. If that means holding my nose and voting for Hillary, I absolutely will. I understand why casting a ballot for Stein will make you feel better about yourself and your vote (and it is tempting, I admit) but it will definitely not help block Trump (nor do I think it will "send a message" or significantly influence anything in Washington -- the time to build support for third parties is between election cycles, not during, imho) and again, that's of more concern to me than four more years of the status quo (although as fflambeau noted, Sanders did manage to influence the Dem platform. Whether Hillary follows through on any of that stuff is a crapshoot.)

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Re: The Hillary Clinton for President Thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:25 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Whether Hillary follows through on any of that stuff is a crapshoot.

A lot will depend on who wins the undercard. A continuation of an obstructionist Congress will prevent Hillary (if she wins) a chance to implement progressive reforms.


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