Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

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Roy
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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby Roy » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:59 pm

wack, I doubt many get away with it now. As snoqueen said, it is an old photo. With cards it is more easily traceable and auditable.

snoqueen
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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby snoqueen » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:11 pm

For clarity, note the program here is known by the name FoodShare Wisconsin.

More than one in seven Wisconsinites — including 379,000 children and 164,000 seniors — will see their monthly food stamp benefits fall in November as provisions from a 2009 economic stimulus law phase out.

Overall, families in the state will receive about $89 million less over the next year through the FoodShare Wisconsin program....

The reduction affects all 861,000 FoodShare recipients in the state.



That's a big hit to the overall economy of the state. And don't forget Wisconsin is a state that sends the feds more money that it receives back, so it's our own money lost to us. To claim that it's federal money that's somehow running short misses that point.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolit ... 42731.html

Bludgeon
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Re: Repubs show their compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:28 pm

Donald wrote:The economy is [/not] getting better, but that doesn't necessarily mean the economy at the lower end of the income spectrum is getting better. There historically is some lag or disconnect between the economy as a whole, and what people at the lower end of income experience. People at the lower end are usually the first fired and the last hired, so how a middle class family experiences a downturn and a recovery is not the same as a low income family.

Let's not fall into the trap of thinking Republicans are being realistic by not extending SNAP benefits. Republicans who think up their talking points tend to live a life disconnected from the realities of most people, particularly those in the lower middle and lower income brackets. Their "solutions" often lack any touch with the reality of folks not in upper income.

I was in a social situation this week where a number of people were talking about this topic. Their immediate responses:

1. They know many, many people on food stamps who receive a huge monthly stipend on foodstamps, some of them nearly a thousand dollars.

2. While in their opinion these people receive 'way too much', they nonetheless would not enjoy the prospect of those people losing their huge monthly stipend, because they buy foodstamps for cash at half the price. (Saying they're amazed when they spend the three hundred dollars they paid for, the receipt says there's still six hundred and eighty dollars left on someone's card)

Left-esque partisans want to make a big stink about the food stamp cuts that they voted into place and now want to blame solely on their political rivals. I don't know who you talk to but the SNAP benefit recipients I talk to, black or white, know full well the ridiculous benefit levels some peoples' loins have acquired for them.

The age of the Welfare Queen is alive in thriving. The state may curtail percentages today, but with a government that's invested in patronage, thousand dollar food stamp cards on top of hundreds-dollars SNAP cash benefits, on top of thousands-dollars 'earned' income tax benefits, sprinkled in with a lot of fraudulent and never investigated tax claims, free rent, free phones and utilities (never mind the under-the-table income), the entitlement society is here to stay.

Do you suppose this was the legacy that FDR had in mind? If so, elaborate.

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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby pjbogart » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:39 pm

Back when I managed convenience stores over a decade ago the food stamp program was largely stamps, not the new debit cards, but even then we trained employees carefully on what could be purchased with food stamps. For the most part you could sum it up as "anything that isn't taxed can be purchased with food stamps". So back then you could not buy candy or soda with food stamps, nor even juice drinks like Sunny D that aren't 100% juice. Kids could buy Oreos or Cheetos, though.

I wish people weren't so quick to condemn a program based upon reports of occasional fraud, especially when those reports become somewhat of a viral screeching ("I saw a black lady buying lobster tails with food stamps!") A. You're a liar. B. Even if you did see such a thing, such instances would be exceedingly rare. Is there abuse of the system? Probably, but not nearly as much as that chain e-mail from your crazy uncle Larry claims. There's fraud in Medicare and Social Security too, and probably significantly more, but we don't abandon programs simply because a few people are abusing it. We work to end the fraud, lest we find ourselves throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I think there will always be more of a stigma to food stamps than other social programs. I suppose there were times when I was in college that I probably qualified for food stamps, yet I've never received any, nor unemployment or any other State assistance for that matter. I always just turned to the First National Bank of Dad, but some people don't have that luxury.

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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby pjbogart » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:40 pm

Oh look, here comes crazy uncle Larry now.

Bludgeon
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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:52 pm

pjbogart wrote:I wish people weren't so quick to condemn a program based upon reports of occasional fraud, especially when those reports become somewhat of a viral screeching ("I saw a black lady buying lobster tails with food stamps!") A. You're a liar. B. Even if you did see such a thing, such instances would be exceedingly rare. Is there abuse of the system? Probably, but not nearly as much as that chain e-mail from your crazy uncle Larry claims. There's fraud in Medicare and Social Security too, and probably significantly more, but we don't abandon programs simply because a few people are abusing it. We work to end the fraud, lest we find ourselves throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

^ This was a good paragraph.

I mean, agree, argue, vote for this side, vote for that side, I don't care. But outside of partisan circles where each side uses patronage/benefit/entitlement as a weapon, -- no one else thinks fraud isn't widespread. The idea of 'how could you think they'd even DREAM of it', holds no weight outside of sanctimonious partisan circles.

People in a social setting will speak very freely and this is what they say: they know all kinds of folks who are abusing these programs.

Realistically, doesn't matter, Dems, Pubs, this color that color, Sting fans, Yanni fans, baseball fans, Volkswagon fans -- when material wealth is in limited supply, they will take what is there to be had. I had the opportunity to reaffirm this fact with a half dozen ladies this last week, but it was hardly the first time. Talk to any of these folks on the long spree of benefit programs in a person to person way, you'll find out very quickly they're not surprised by people abusing the system because every other person they know is doing it.

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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby Detritus » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:27 pm

Bludgeon wrote:1. They know many, many people on food stamps who receive a huge monthly stipend on foodstamps, some of them nearly a thousand dollars.

Explain to me how this works, when the monthly SNAP allotment per person, according to the USDA, averages $116. Do they all have eight or nine people in their family?

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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby pjbogart » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:37 pm

Honestly Detritus, how could you even explain such inanity? The entire post was so ludicrous that it's offensive that Bludgeon thinks anyone here is dumb enough to believe it.

To sum up: Bludgeon was in a social setting talking with a few people who are defrauding the food stamp program by purchasing the use of other people's SNAP cards and they're simply AMAZED by the $1000 on the card!

Uh, yeah.

snoqueen
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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby snoqueen » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:42 pm

If these people really know about fraud as described, they are obligated to report it to the state. Otherwise they are complicit.

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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby gozer » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:45 pm

so can we expect to see federal reserve manipulation of the markets and other stimulus activities rolled back any time soon as well? i thought not.

with snap the benefit it has is readily observable and the money goes right back into the economy. the republican arguments i have seen for scaling it back on principle are some of the more vicious i have seen in some time, about anything. loads of scapegoating too.

Bludgeon
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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:58 pm

snoqueen wrote:If these people really know about fraud as described, they are obligated to report it to the state. Otherwise they are complicit.

I got news for you, all the jails in the state don't have room for all the people who are complicit. This is common knowledge. LOL obligated to report it - do you hear yourself?

Detrius, that's a nice thin ice pancake you're standing on.

PJ, "A few people" - pfft. How many people on Atticus do you think recieve food stamps, rent control, SNAP cash benefit, fraudulant EIC payments and more? A: most of them. Theresa Terrace, hell most of Hammersley Rd, Badger Rd, Chalet Gardens, Kennedy Heights, Fremont/Cypress/Brentwood/Monterey, Blossom Ln, Camden Rd, 6600-6900 Schroeder Rd, Raymond Rd, you don't need a census to realize a majority percentage are glutting on befefit programs of all sorts.

Also - unlike the sanctimonious pretentious partisans who want to give you a headache turning themselves into cartwheeling pretzels to try and tell you otherwise - they will straight up tell you it's true.

Detritus
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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby Detritus » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:03 pm

Bludgeon wrote:Detritus, that's a nice thin ice pancake you're standing on.

It is true, reality can look like thin ice to those who only have passing familiarity with either one.

Really, it was a simple question, Bludge, based on readily available information. Surely the many, many people who have told you this (or was it one person who told you many many people do this?) have some idea how it's done. How does $116 per person per month add up to nearly a thousand dollars?

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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby pjbogart » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:07 pm

Alright, Bludgie. Show us, then. Get yourself a little James O'Keefe getup, maybe don some blackface and do some interviews. Wear a wire if you think it helps. You've got a great opportunity to become a darling of the right, maybe even get yourself on FoxNews and the Drudge Report. All you have to do is go up to Atticus Way, record a few of these conversations and before you know it you'll be guest hosting the Rush Limbaugh Show.

I mean, since you have all these facts at your fingertips, why would you pass up the opportunity? Carpe diem, Bludgie. Carpe diem.

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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:37 pm

Detritus wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:Detritus, that's a nice thin ice pancake you're standing on.

It is true, reality can look like thin ice to those who only have passing familiarity with either one.

Really, it was a simple question, Bludge, based on readily available information. Surely the many, many people who have told you this (or was it one person who told you many many people do this?) have some idea how it's done. How does $116 per person per month add up to nearly a thousand dollars?


The real question is what do you think your $116 dollar figure actually even means? It gets so tiring bandying with self possessed progressives who are convinced they're making a brilliant argument, one they're not even grasping.

What are you trying to convince yourself tha the 'average' SNAP alotment reperesents, you idiot?

Are you also suggesting that a low average alotment somehow means that millions of people also do not receive a very high monthly alotment?

Who do you think receives $116? What do you think the upper limit is? Are you trying to make yourself believe there is a family of four with no job and no other income living on $116 a month with not enough food to eat, you fucking moron?

More like that large family and two other relatives they claim live there are getting like six hundred dollars a month on the SNAP card, as well as doctor shopping til they get a fake autism diagnosis for one or two of their kids to collect another $850 cash, pretending they have their own 'cleaning business' where they earn just enough to hit the 'sweet spot' when they defraud their EIC tax returns and collect another $5000-$6000 at the beginning of every year, on top of their free rent.

Don't just come stumbling in with your $116 from cherrypick.org and act like it's an argument.

snoqueen
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Re: Repubs (and Dems) show compassion by cutting food stamps

Postby snoqueen » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:11 pm

The $116.50/most in 2012 figure comes from the USDA's own .gov web site, if you'd take the trouble to follow and read the link. It wasn't from Mother Jones.

"Average" means some recipients get above the average and others get less than the average. If you're going to get all incensed that some get more than $116.50 per month, take some time to consider that others get more like $50/person.

And if you think it's absurd to consider reporting people or businesses when you have evidence they're committing fraud, well, I think you're the fraud. You've got nothin' and you're trying to cover it up with bluster.

People and businesses get investigated for fraud all the time. Didn't you ever talk to anybody who got audited by the IRS? You must be living under a rock. Any system can be gamed, and you don't have to be poor to try it.

Also, don't post drunk on a Saturday night. Leave that to the pros.
Last edited by snoqueen on Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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