DOMA. Done.

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Huckleby
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:23 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote: The federal government now is required to recognize any mariage as legally binding based on the laws of the state in which the mariage ocurred. In other words, the various states have the right to set the legal definition and requirments for mariage, and the federal government must accept that. I'd call that a state's rights win, wouldn't you?


OK. But that is how it has always worked, not "now"

FJD
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby FJD » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:31 am

except DOMA allowed the federal government to ignore legal mariages between same sex couples.

edit: fixed use of accept rather then except. smacked self in the head.
Last edited by FJD on Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Huckleby
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:27 pm

I agree with you that the DOMA ruling was respectful of state's right.

My point is that it just a temporary convenience, states rights never trump the constitution.

Ultimately, the court is going to tell the states to stuff it, they've laid the groundwork to do so, and I'm thinking November 10, 2016 would be a good time for that to happen.

FJD
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby FJD » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:45 pm

Huckleby wrote:I agree with you that the DOMA ruling was respectful of state's right.

My point is that it just a temporary convenience, states rights never trump the constitution.

Ultimately, the court is going to tell the states to stuff it, they've laid the groundwork to do so, and I'm thinking November 10, 2016 would be a good time for that to happen.


You think the Roberts court will lay the smack down on state's rights? Barring another conservative retirement before the end of the Obama administration exactly how do you see that happening?

Huckleby
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:04 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote: You think the Roberts court will lay the smack down on state's rights? Barring another conservative retirement before the end of the Obama administration exactly how do you see that happening?


Some gay parents in Iowa will move to Nebraska. Suddenly their family is greatly harmed by their marriage not being recognized. They sue Nebraska, makes way to SC. Kennedy and 4 liberals, based on the logic Kennedy laid down in DOMA, rule that states have to recognize marriages once recognized by the Federal government, or perhaps just have to recognize gay marriages period.

The SC would prefer to wait until the country is a bit more unified behind gay marriage acceptance. I would prefer to wait until the Republicans are bludgeoned one more election cycle by the issue. It could happen in two years, could happen in 8, but it will happen.

FJD
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby FJD » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:17 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote: You think the Roberts court will lay the smack down on state's rights? Barring another conservative retirement before the end of the Obama administration exactly how do you see that happening?


Some gay parents in Iowa will move to Nebraska. Suddenly their family is greatly harmed by their marriage not being recognized. They sue Nebraska, makes way to SC. Kennedy and 4 liberals, based on the logic Kennedy laid down in DOMA, rule that states have to recognize marriages once recognized by the Federal government, or perhaps just have to recognize gay marriages period.

The SC would prefer to wait until the country is a bit more unified behind gay marriage acceptance. I would prefer to wait until the Republicans are bludgeoned one more election cycle by the issue. It could happen in two years, could happen in 8, but it will happen.


My guess is if that case comes up (and I hope it does sooner rather then later, because fuck the political bullshit, this is peoples lives) the court will rule that each states must recognize the legal mariage contracts of other states. In otherwords it will be be agnostic as far as state's rights.

Unless of course the Court can find another technical aspect to rule on like they did on Prop 8.

Huckleby
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:21 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:My guess is if that case comes up (and I hope it does sooner rather then later, because fuck the political bullshit, this is peoples lives)

Oh, nothing wrong with a long engagement. They can celebrate their nuptials and Hilary's election together, and probably only have to wait an extra year to do so. Then they'll have a supreme court that guarantees a lot of their rights, from health care to voting. Worth the wait, Adam & Steve.

Francis Di Domizio wrote:the court will rule that each states must recognize the legal mariage contracts of other states. In otherwords it will be be agnostic as far as state's rights.


This scenario is not agnostic on state's rights. It forces states to recognize gay marriage against their wishes; and as a practical matter is barely different from forcing conservative states to actually marry couples.


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