NSA spying on everyone, everything

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:45 am

wack wack wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:As to your assertion that non-government workers can't be trusted with these secrets, get real. These people have to go through the same security background checks as their government counterparts (usually when they worked for the government).


Yes, the same security background checks outsourced to and controlled by private corporations.

As more and more information comes out, it becomes clear that the level of privatization in national security is outrageous.

The best thing that can come of this is the American people start to understand some of the downsides to "privatization."


Because back when the government did security background checks all on their own, there was never classified information leaked to the press or foreign nations. ever. at all.

Not saying there are not downsides to privatization (for one I am guessing we pay a lot more in the long run), but the only way I can see getting away from privatization would be to either increase the intelligence and military budgets for staffing in intelligence areas so that it's not more lucrative for a government employee to go into private service, or given what they are doing with our money, pare back the responsibilities of these agencies so they need less staff.

Not seeing either happening anytime soon. Especially since our senior elected officials seem to see no problem with what the NSA has been doing, or the process itself.

wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm
Contact:

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby wack wack » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:53 am

Don't be an ass, Francis. i didn't even suggest that this didn't or doesn't happen with government employees.

However, the claim is regularly made that privatization will prevent the abuses of government. Clearly not the case.

The downsides to privatization are HUGE, the solutions as you've outlined them are correct, but as long as people are more worried about keeping as much money as possible for themselves rather than fix the problems of the nation, nothing is going to change.

it's all about money. Always. Every bit of it.

Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:54 am

wack wack wrote:Don't be an ass, Francis. i didn't even suggest that this didn't or doesn't happen with government employees.

However, the claim is regularly made that privatization will prevent the abuses of government. Clearly not the case.


I apologize if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

Privatization just means the governement is paying someone else to do what it would normally do itself. That's hardly a formula for reducing government abuse. If a private company did decline a job on ethical grounds (everyone stop laughing, I'm being hypothetical), the contracting agency would just find a less ethically endowed firm to take the contract. Since most of the private firms are staffed by former government employees, there probably isn't much diference in the level of ethics between government agents and the contractors they hire to begin with.

wack wack wrote:The downsides to privatization are HUGE, the solutions as you've outlined them are correct, but as long as people are more worried about keeping as much money as possible for themselves rather than fix the problems of the nation, nothing is going to change.

it's all about money. Always. Every bit of it.


I'd amend that to say money and control.

DCB
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3205
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby DCB » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:06 am

wack wack wrote:
it's all about money. Always. Every bit of it.

Privatizing the security state creates a for-profit entity that has a financial incentive to expand the security state. The revolving door between NSA and Booz Allen Hamilton has made Clapper, Hayden, McConnell and the rest wealthy. Has it made the USA any more secure?

Meanwhile Congress is planning to cut funding for SNAP, aka food stamps. Food security is a real problem for millions of Americans. But they don't have lobbyists funded by multi-billion dollar corporations.

Stella_Guru
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby Stella_Guru » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:28 am

DCB wrote:Meanwhile Congress is planning to cut funding for SNAP, aka food stamps. Food security is a real problem for millions of Americans. But they don't have lobbyists funded by multi-billion dollar corporations.

That is the last straw. I'm off to join Al Q.....oh damn, really sorry. I meant Alcoholics Anonymous. Really.

wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm
Contact:

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby wack wack » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:47 am

Profit motive ruins everything.

Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:49 am

Stella_Guru wrote:That is the last straw. I'm off to join Al Q.....oh damn, really sorry. I meant Alcoholics Anonymous. Really

Well, now you are on somebody's list for sure

DCB
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3205
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby DCB » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:38 pm


johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1755
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:32 am

DCB wrote:Just tell me:
what's being done in my name?


Everyone should click that link then, from the linked page, go to the Charles Pierce rant. All I can say to Charles is "Amen, brother. Preach it!" Must reading for progressives, liberals and conservatives.

Direct link to the Pierce column http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/A_Simple_Question

As someone said the other day in another venue "Obama has launched a libertarian revolution."

I've been saying something like this since 2008 and was saying it last year on this forum as the reason I support Obama. ("Worse is better")

It does seem to be going much as I expected. I'd like it faster, of course, but it took us 80 years to get here, we are not going to turn this ship of state on a dime.

Still, Obama has made more progress towards doing it in 4-1//2 years than we have seen in all the years before.

My main question at this point is whether he is doing it through incompetence or by plan? Not that it really matters, the result is the same.

Go Obie! I fully support what you are doing. You have finally been able to get progressives, conservatives and liberals (libertarians) to unite against a common enemy: Washington politicians of both parties.

If you are doing it in my name, that is fine with me.

John Henry

wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm
Contact:

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby wack wack » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:49 am

It's a nice rant, but the truth is we are the government and we have the power to change it. Don't do what you always did if you don't want what you always get.

I'm confident that the next time the American citizenry has a chance to make a difference, they won't change a damned thing.

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1755
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:20 am

wack wack wrote:It's a nice rant, but the truth is we are the government and we have the power to change it. Don't do what you always did if you don't want what you always get.

I'm confident that the next time the American citizenry has a chance to make a difference, they won't change a damned thing.


See, we don't always disagree.

I even agree with much of your second paragraph, though I do see change coming. Slower than molasses, but coming.

John Henry

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5993
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:41 pm

This came out from Wired magazine. It's a fascinating and scary story about the man leading the cyber war technology from the NSA. It's long but worth it. Let's just say there is so much we don't know and it's been going on for a long time.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/0 ... erwar/all/

Sandi
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby Sandi » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm

Thanks for the link Stebben. One paragraph in particular gives me concern.

... In his telling, the threat is so mind-bogglingly huge that the nation has little option but to eventually put the entire civilian Internet under his protection, requiring tweets and emails to pass through his filters, and putting the kill switch under the government’s forefinger. “What we see is an increasing level of activity on the networks,” he said at a recent security conference in Canada. “I am concerned that this is going to break a threshold where the private sector can no longer handle it and the government is going to have to step in.”


(Emphasis added)

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5993
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:08 am

Here's another interesting story especially since we have a thread about telegrams. Oh, how far we've come.

The history of NSA spying, from telegrams to email

In August of 1945, U.S. Army representatives met in secret with the country’s three major telegraph companies, ITT World International, RCA Global, and Western Union. They explained that the Army Signal Security Agency wanted copies of all telegrams sent to and from the United States. World War II was coming to a close and the top secret, multinational Manhattan project had proven the power of foreign intelligence. Executives from the three companies agreed to comply, provided they were assured by then-Attorney General Tom Clark that it was not illegal for them to do so. There is no record any such assurance was officially given, but the operation went ahead anyway.


We've been in the spy game for a long time. Computers just make it easier.

wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm
Contact:

Re: NSA spying on everyone, everything

Postby wack wack » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 am

Coupla questions:

1) NBC is reporting that the NSA is considering ending monitoring of phone calls in the United States. Does anyone believe this will ever happen?

2) Defenders of the NSA program claim several... no, dozens... no, more than 50!!! terrorist plots have been disrupted due to NSA monitoring. Does anyone believe this?


Return to “National Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests