97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

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Bland
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Bland » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:03 pm

Sandi wrote:I would suggest an open mind.

I doubt very much that you would recognize one if you encountered it, given that you apparently think ignoring, denying, and obfuscating decades of interdisciplinary scientific research somehow constitutes having one.

Stebben84
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:55 pm

Sandi wrote:However I would suggest an open mind.


Ah! Senator smart-as-a-box-a-rocks Sanders says it is so. Then it must be gospel.

Pfft! Wanna buy a bridge?

I get my news mostly from CNN and CNNI.

Maybe I should put the mentally bankrupt on ignore.

What a bunch of pure hog wash.


Why should anyone take you seriously in this discussion. Do you even believe pollution exists?

Sandi
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Sandi » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:35 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Why should anyone take you seriously in this discussion. Do you even believe pollution exists?


Yes of course there are many pollutants. However CO2 isn't one of them.

rabble
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:11 pm

Sandi wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:Why should anyone take you seriously in this discussion. Do you even believe pollution exists?


Yes of course there are many pollutants. However CO2 isn't one of them.

Is CO2 a pollutant?
CO2 is not a pollutant
'To suddenly label CO2 as a "pollutant" is a disservice to a gas that has played an enormous role in the development and sustainability of all life on this wonderful Earth. Mother Earth has clearly ruled that CO2 is not a pollutant.' (Robert Balling, as quoted by Popular Technology)


Although it has some very important and beneficial effects, CO2 meets the legal and encyclopedic definitions of a "pollutant", and human CO2 emissions pose a threat to public health and welfare.

Sandi won't see that. She's the first person I've ever been really sorry that I pissed her off enough to block me.

DCB
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby DCB » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:59 pm

rabble wrote:Is CO2 a pollutant?

I would call it a pollutant. It certainly meets the Encylopdia Brittanica definition:
"the addition of any substance (solid, liquid, or gas) or any form of energy (such as heat, sound, or radioactivity) to the environment at a rate faster than it can be dispersed, diluted, decomposed, recycled, or stored in some harmless form."


But I don't see the value in a semantic debate.

Is anthropogenic CO2 increasing rapidly? is it a greenhouse gas ? will that change the climate?

Those questions have been answered decisively in the affirmative.

Stebben84
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:06 pm

But it feeds plants and trees. Silly warmenisticas.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:41 pm

DCB wrote:But I don't see the value in a semantic debate.

Is anthropogenic CO2 increasing rapidly? is it a greenhouse gas ? will that change the climate?

Well the article had two responses to the question, Intermediate and Advanced. That first quote was from the "Advanced" response. The Intermediate one is
While there are direct ways in which CO2 is a pollutant (acidification of the ocean), its primary impact is its greenhouse warming effect. While the greenhouse effect is a natural occurence, too much warming has severe negative impacts on agriculture, health and environment.

Since one would expect the antiwarmenists to make both arguments, effect and technical, it's prudent to have both rebuttals handy.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby pjbogart » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:01 pm

Sandi wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:Why should anyone take you seriously in this discussion. Do you even believe pollution exists?


Yes of course there are many pollutants. However CO2 isn't one of them.


In an odd way this simple statement pretty much sums up the entire thread. It's like having a chat about evolutionary biology with someone who simply responds, "yeah, well God just put all those clues there to give you something to study".

I think I'd term this a pseudo-impasse. You aren't really disagreeing because you have no point of agreement from which to diverge.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby HawkHead » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:48 am

Sandi wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:Why should anyone take you seriously in this discussion. Do you even believe pollution exists?


Yes of course there are many pollutants. However CO2 isn't one of them.


Let's take a human or animal and put them in an environment with 3% more concentration of CO2 and see what happens?

The question really is, how long until they die?

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby HawkHead » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:52 am

Sandi wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:Why should anyone take you seriously in this discussion. Do you even believe pollution exists?


Yes of course there are many pollutants. However CO2 isn't one of them.


Actually every chemical is a pollutant. Clean water is a pollutant and oxygen also. It all depends upon the concentration and the amount.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Galoot » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:41 pm

Peej is right, it is very much like arguing with young-earth creationists. And while some of those creationists can be convinced to actually consider scientific evidence (I've convinced a few over the years), the vast majority refuse to reconsider their basic presuppositions.

AGW deniers don't actually care about evidence, from what I have seen, they just repeat tired talking points from the energy company "think tanks" that push this agenda.

And like young-earth creationists, AGW deniers whine about conspiracies in the scientific community, the terrible unfairness of the peer-review process, and they cannot cite scientific studies that back up their claims.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:22 pm

My favorite discussion with a true believer involved a Biblical literalist. They challenged me to name a single example of the The Bible being factually wrong. I decided I'd be better off with something innocuous rather than anything of actual religious importance. Here's how it went:

"The Bible says that grasshoppers have four legs."
"That is true."
"No, they have six legs."
"If The Bible says they have only four, then it is true."
{At this point, I posted a picture of a grasshopper}
"We can both agree this is a grasshopper, right?"
"Yes."
"It very clearly has six legs, wouldn't you agree?"
"No, it has four legs and two arms."

Thus endeth the lesson.

Sandi
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Sandi » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:03 pm

HawkHead wrote:
Sandi wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:Why should anyone take you seriously in this discussion. Do you even believe pollution exists?


Yes of course there are many pollutants. However CO2 isn't one of them.


Actually every chemical is a pollutant. Clean water is a pollutant and oxygen also. It all depends upon the concentration and the amount.


Absolutely correct, and thank you for making my point so unmistakably clear. The atmosphere's oxygen is not at polluting levels where it poisons life on earth, nor is carbon dioxide.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby jman111 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:08 pm

wow.

Stebben84
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:14 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Do you even believe pollution exists?

Sandi wrote:Yes of course there are many pollutants. However CO2 isn't one of them.

HawkHead wrote:Actually every chemical is a pollutant. Clean water is a pollutant and oxygen also.

Sandi wrote:Absolutely correct, and thank you for making my point so unmistakably clear.


Wow is correct.


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