97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

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pjbogart
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby pjbogart » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:46 pm

Maybe he's only a climate change denier during the primary season. The rest of the decade he takes no position.

Mad Howler
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Mad Howler » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:46 pm

DCB wrote:Senator Sunspots is having a fit
Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) said in an email blast Tuesday that a green group is on an “environmental jihad” against him.
...
“They are declaring political war and they'll do or say anything to defeat me,” Johnson said.


The League of Conservation Voters is targeting four Republicans who don't accept reality. Apparently Johnson doesn't deny that he is a climate change denier. He's just taking issue with the LCV for letting voters know about his anti-science position.

Has this Heritage Foundation/tea party acolyte really forgotten the antics that led to us referring to him as 'senator'?
I doubt it, so undoubtedly this is projection and boring.
I suspect he has been told that more than half the eligible voters in Wisconsin will buy this BS.
If he has any emerging sense with regard to deliberating weighty policy matters, I suggest he not be recognized for asking "great" questions from corporate leaders regarding off shoring taxes:
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/05/22/ ... e-johnson/
This just looks too lucid given past performance.
But...there it was, somehow RJ found a way to out shine the other hucksters you might be inclined to "like ".

fennel
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby fennel » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:13 am

Some clear talk from Bernie: http://youtu.be/je0_LKQQdng

Roy
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Roy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:12 pm

fennel wrote:Some clear talk from Bernie: http://youtu.be/je0_LKQQdng


Ah! Senator smart-as-a-box-a-rocks Sanders says it is so. Then it must be gospel.

Pfft! Wanna buy a bridge?

rabble
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby rabble » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:26 pm

Sandi wrote:
fennel wrote:Some clear talk from Bernie: http://youtu.be/je0_LKQQdng


Ah! Senator smart-as-a-box-a-rocks Sanders says it is so. Then it must be gospel.

Pfft! Wanna buy a bridge?

What, you're trying to sell the one you bought? No thanks.

‘Extremely Likely’ That Human Activity Is Driving Climate Change, Panel Finds
The “extremely likely” language is stronger than in the last major United Nations report, published in 2007, and it means the authors of the draft document are now 95 percent to 100 percent confident that human activity is the primary influence on planetary warming. In the 2007 report, they said they were 90 percent to 100 percent certain on that issue.

I was going to wait till the paper had been thoroughly finalized in September but it's not bloody likely they'll back off on the "extremely likely it's manmade" part.

The new report lays out several scenarios. In the most optimistic, the world’s governments would prove far more successful at getting emissions under control than they have been in the recent past, helping to limit the total warming.

In that circumstance, sea level could be expected to rise as little as 10 inches by the end of the century, the report found. That is a bit more than the eight-inch rise in the 20th century, which proved manageable even though it caused severe erosion along the world’s shorelines.

At the other extreme, the report considers a scenario in which emissions, which have soared in recent years, continue at a runaway pace. Under those conditions, sea level could be expected to rise at least 21 inches by 2100 and might rise a bit more than three feet, the draft report said.

Hundreds of millions of people live near sea level, and either figure would represent a challenge for humanity, scientists say. But a three-foot rise in particular would endanger many of the world’s great cities — among them London, Shanghai, Venice, Sydney, Miami, New Orleans and New York.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:30 pm

FOX News told Sandi that the UN is evil, so she will discount anything from them (unless it supports her preconceived notions).

Roy
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Roy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:30 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:FOX News told Sandi that the UN is evil, so she will discount anything from them (unless it supports her preconceived notions).


Henry. I think the UN is evil, but don't know if FOX thinks that (though I suppose they do). I get my news mostly from CNN and CNNI.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Roy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:26 pm

DCB wrote:Senator Sunspots is having a fit
Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) said in an email blast Tuesday that a green group is on an “environmental jihad” against him.
...
“They are declaring political war and they'll do or say anything to defeat me,” Johnson said.


The League of Conservation Voters is targeting four Republicans who don't accept reality. Apparently Johnson doesn't deny that he is a climate change denier. He's just taking issue with the LCV for letting voters know about his anti-science position.


Forget about the LCV. the Organization for Action (OFA) is pushing the president's climate change agenda in probable violation of the Hatch Act.

Link
According to the Hatch Act, federal employees in the executive branch, except certain designated officials such as the President or Vice President, are prohibited from engaging in political campaign activities.

In the letters, Inhofe wrote: "The OFA activities are clearly political in nature, solely targeting Republican members of the House and Senate for campaign purposes." "Cleary OFA is now engaging in political activities and it appears as though they are closely coordinating efforts with EPA and CEQ, negating their independence."

On Tuesday, OFA announced a list of climate change deniers in Congress and said the organization will soon be holding events in congressional districts of many of these lawmakers. The day following the announcement, the White House held environmental advocacy events in Providence, RI and Hartford, Conn.

"The Obama Administration's apparent coordination with the campaign arm and the White House leave me no choice but to investigate," said Inhofe.

"Just as the OFA has called for light to be shed on members of Congress not in lockstep with the President's agenda, I will work to shed light on the coincidence of coordination in the Obama Administration we continue to see unfold," Inhofe said.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby pjbogart » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:23 pm

Sandi wrote:Forget about the LCV. the Organization for Action (OFA) is pushing the president's climate change agenda in probable violation of the Hatch Act.


That's not what the article says, though it's not entirely clear whether the author understands the issue either. But in the future it would be nice if you put at least a minimal amount of effort into understanding an issue before you post.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Roy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:28 pm

Right. And understanding the article would be to agree with you. pfft!

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby peripat » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:49 pm

Pfui- I was Hatched for years and our yearly lecture told us only that we could not actively campaign for anyone.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby pjbogart » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:15 pm

Sandi, OFA is a political organization. They can push whatever political message they want. The issue is whether EPA employees have coordinated with OFA, which would violate the Hatch Act.

"The Obama Administration's apparent coordination with the campaign arm and the White House leave me no choice but to investigate," said Inhofe.


Now how could the Obama administration be guilty of coordinating with the White House? Well, because Inhofe is intentionally confusing people by referring to the EPA as "The Obama Administration". The EPA is an administrative branch organization that falls statutorily under Article II of the Constitution, hence they are part of the executive. But like most administrative branch organizations they are quasi-executive, legislative and judicial. But even though the EPA is executive in nature, referring to it as "The Obama Administration" is intended to give the impression that Obama is somehow illegally coordinating with himself. EPA employees, like Scott Walker office staff, are not permitted to coordinate with political campaigns. That's where the reference to the Hatch Act comes in.

"Organizing for America" or "Organizing for Action" or whatever they're calling his defunct re-election campaign these days is not being accused of illegally "pushing the president's climate change agenda", as you stated. OFA is a political organization. Pushing political issues is what they do, specifically the President's political issues. Inhofe is complaining that employees of the EPA, loosely referred to as "The Administration", are violating the Hatch Act by campaigning on the President's behalf.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby pjbogart » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:49 pm

I can't let this one go because it's bugging me. Not the Sandi angle, but the Inhofe angle. This guy cooks up fake scandals faster than an Iron Chef. His complaint that executive agencies shouldn't be coordinating with campaigns is valid, but the only thing that really saves his "scandal" is that OFA, allegedly coordinating with the EPA is only campaigning against Republican candidates who are climate change deniers.

But let's rearrange a few facts and agencies and see how this plays out. Michelle Obama has been big on a healthy kids initiative. Public service announcements use Bugs Bunny to encourage kids to get more exercise and eat healthier, drink more water, eat more vegetables, etc. Did Inhofe launch any investigations into whether the FDA is coordinating with the OFA to encourage healthy eating and more exercise? Similar scenario, really. Administrative agency working with the political arm of Obama's campaign to achieve a common good.

As far as I know the OFA doesn't target specific politicians who oppose eating healthy, but they certainly have the right to do so. And just because the FDA coordinates with OFA to encourage healthy eating does not necessarily mean they're behind any ads criticizing Republicans for opposing the program. The only real difference in the scenarios is that there aren't any huge opponents of healthy eating, whereas there are plenty of opponents of climate change theory.

So while I generally detest James Inhofe, who strikes me as a crook and a liar, it raises interesting questions. If EPA administrators accept global warming as an established fact, which they almost certainly do, how far can they go in coordinating with interest groups in things such as awareness campaigns? At what point does that coordination cross the line? When specific politicians are targeted, regardless of party? Could the EPA sponsor a Sierra Club commercial campaign to increase awareness of your carbon footprint, or would that be too political? If the awareness campaign never mentions specific politicians or parties are they in the clear, or is the general controversy over the subject enough to violate the Hatch Act?

I'm not sure that we have the answers to any of those questions because I don't think we've ever had a crazy fuck like James Inhofe screaming and yelling every time the President farts. But they're reasonable questions and probably would go all the way to the Supreme Court.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby snoqueen » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:13 am

If the awareness campaign never mentions specific politicians or parties are they in the clear, or is the general controversy over the subject enough to violate the Hatch Act?


This is the option that makes the most sense to me -- it's almost as if the agency (whatever it is) has hired the organization as if it were an advertising agency. Its contacts and knowledge base are being used to get a factual message to the public ("it's better to eat this and not this" or whatever it might be).

In any rational country, that would be a public service. Of course in today's USA, the corn-syrup lobby would be screaming its head off and the Republicans would be investigating and the whole thing would go up in flames.

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:08 pm

Leaked draft of climate report struggles with drop in warming

An unreleased draft of the U.N.’s next major climate report reportedly states that scientists are more certain than ever that man’s actions are warming the planet -- even as the report struggles to explain a slow-down in warming that climate skeptics have seized upon.

Global surface temperatures rose rapidly during the 70s, but have been relatively flat over the past decade and a half, according to data from the U.K.’s weather-watching Met Office. Climate skeptics have spent months debating the weather pattern, some citing it as evidence that global warming itself has decelerated or even stopped


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/08/ ... z2cXerdU1w


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