BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

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Comrade
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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Comrade » Mon May 13, 2013 10:17 pm

snoqueen wrote:
... everyone needs to be subjected to the SAME level of scrutiny. Holding people the auditor disagrees with politicaly to a different standard than those the auditor likes is WRONG and an abuse of power. The consequence for that needs to be taking the power away from the abusers and giving it to more ethical and honest individuals.


Nobody is going to disagree with this.

For that reason, the whole story here is going to be about how huge and lengthy a screaming session the right wing will stage.

Just keep one thing in mind while it's happening: it's for show, and doesn't make one iota of difference to the outcome or change anyone's opinion.

Which is pretty much a working definition of "waste of time.'

That's where you are completely wrong. Snowqueen, it's not about changing opinion. It's about the difference between right and wrong and speaking out when something wrong is occurring. Why don't you support people speaking out about injustice?

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Leroy Gates » Tue May 14, 2013 3:17 am

"Washington IRS officials targeted conservatives...
55-questions sent to tea party group; Demands for donor lists, names of all volunteers...
BOOK: IRS retaliates against outspoken business leaders...
Tea Party groups threaten to sue...
Kentucky activist to IRS: 'Apology not accepted'...
Probe Expands To Groups Opposed To Gov't, Teaching Constitution...
Scrutiny Deeper Than Thought...
McConnell: 'Just The Beginning'...
Agency accused of leaking confidential tax documents during election...
Scandal politics sweep Capitol Hill...
FLASHBACK: Senior White House official briefed reporters on Koch brothers taxes..."
http://drudgereport.com
Please click on the Link for more Hope and Change

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby wack wack » Tue May 14, 2013 7:43 am

Upon further review and consideration, I am having an increasingly difficult time remaining upset about outwardly anti-tax organizations receiving extra scrutiny regarding tax exempt status. if there is a possible "extra level" of scrutiny, surely anti-tax groups should be first in line to receive it.

And the idea that political groups educate is stupid. Indoctrinate, yes; educate, no.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Meade » Tue May 14, 2013 9:00 am

wack wack wrote:Upon further review and consideration, I am having an increasingly difficult time remaining upset about outwardly anti-tax organizations receiving extra scrutiny regarding tax exempt status. if there is a possible "extra level" of scrutiny, surely anti-tax groups should be first in line to receive it.

Thank you, Lord North. Please tell your friends Lord Germain and the Earl of Sandwich hello from me and the Tea Party.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby wack wack » Tue May 14, 2013 9:08 am

Meade wrote:Thank you, Lord North. Please tell your friends Lord Germain and the Earl of Sandwich hello from me and the Tea Party.


You're welcome. Next!

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Donald » Tue May 14, 2013 9:49 am

The problem here is not with the IRS. It's with how stupid the Tea Party goofballs are to try to cheat the tax system in such an obvious manner. If you have the word "party" anywhere in the name of your supposedly tax exempt non-profit organization, that's automatically going to get the attention of the IRS. Duh!!!

I would say the IRS would be lax in its duty to protect us against tax cheats if it didn't investigate such organizations that were claiming tax exempt status and boldly pointing out in the organization name that they didn't fit the IRS code.

By the way, this has nothing to do with whether the Tea Party can exist in any of its permutations. There was nothing the IRS was doing that threatened the political rights of these groups. There was nothing saying the Tea Party couldn't accept donations to fund its activities. But no one, not even the Tea Party, can use tax money to fund its political speech. And that's what giving tax exemption to obviously political organizations amounts to---a tax subsidy---something any good Tea Party member ought to fight like hell against.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby snoqueen » Tue May 14, 2013 10:38 am

Possibly what we have here is another instance of proactive reverse reasoning (for lack of a better term). Realizing they were in reality neither religious nor educational in nature, the Teap organizations seeking tax exemption (which they got anyway) have decided to stage a giant screaming session about the fact they were being questioned as to their religious/educational nature by the IRS.

Not like this same dynamic isn't used constantly by their teammates.

The more I dig into this, the more I think IRS was actually doing its job in targeting these guys, and should be praised for taking a stand that was ultimately going to result in, well, their being the target of a giant screaming session. Show me another set of potential taxpayers who deserve scrutiny as much as the Teaps do.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Leroy Gates » Tue May 14, 2013 10:46 am

Well then, I'm sure you'll be happy to rationalize this too.

"PROGRESSIVE GROUP: IRS GAVE US CONSERVATIVE GROUPS' CONFIDENTIAL DOCS"

"The group says that "no unapproved applications from liberal groups were sent to ProPublica.”"
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/14/Progressive-Group-Says-IRS-Gave-Them-Confidential-Docs-On-Conservative-Groups

Meade
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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Meade » Tue May 14, 2013 10:52 am

snoqueen wrote:Show me another set of potential taxpayers who deserve scrutiny as much as the Teaps do.

Okay:
Senators [edit]
Birch Bayh
J. W. Fulbright
Fred R. Harris
Harold Hughes
Edward M. Kennedy
George McGovern
Walter Mondale
Edmund Muskie
Gaylord Nelson
William Proxmire
Members of the House of Representatives [edit]
Bella Abzug
William R. Anderson
John Brademas
Father Robert Drinan
Robert Kastenmeier
Wright Patman
Black Congressmen and Congresswomen[2]
Shirley Chisholm
William Clay
George Collins
John Conyers
Ronald Dellums
Charles Diggs
Augustus Hawkins
Ralph Metcalfe
Robert N.C. Nix
Parren Mitchell
Charles Rangel
Louis Stokes
Other politicians [edit]
John Lindsay, mayor, New York City;
Eugene McCarthy, former U.S senator;
George Wallace, governor, Alabama.
Sargent Shriver, former director of the Peace Corps and 1972 Vice Presidential candidate
Organizations [edit]
Black Panthers, Hughie Newton [sic]
Brookings Institution, Lesley Gelb [sic] and others
Business Executives Move for VN Peace. Henry Niles, national chairman, Vincent McGee. executive director
Committee for an Effective Congress. Russell Hemenway
Common Cause, John Gardner, Morton Halperin, Charles Goodell, Walter Hickel
Congressional Black Caucus
COPE, Alexander E Barkan
Council for a Livable World, Bernard T. Feld, pr idem: professor of physics. MIT
Farmers Union, NFO
Institute of Policy study Richard Barnet, Marcus Raskin
National Economic Council, Inc.
National Education Association, Sam M. Lambert president
National Student Association, Charles Palmer[disambiguation needed] president
National Welfare Rights Organization, George Wiley
Potomac Associates, William Watts
SANE, Sanford Gottlieb
Southern Christian Leadership, Ralph Abernathy;
Third National Convocation on the Challenge of Building Peace, Robert V Roosa, chairman
Businessmen's Educational Fund.
Labor [edit]
Karl Feller president, International Union United Brewery. Flour, Cereal, Soft Drink and Distillery Workers, Cincinnati
Harold J. Gibbons, international vice president, Teamsters
A F Grospiron, president, Oil, Chemical Atomic Workers International Union, Denver
Matthew Guinan, president, Transport Work. Union of America, New York City
Paul Jennings, president, International Union Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers, Washington D.C.
Herman D. Kenin, vice president, AFL-CIO. D
Lane Kirkland, secretary-treasurer. AFL-CIO (we must deal with him)
Frederick O'Neal. president. Actors and Artists America, New York City
William Pollock, president, Textile Workers Union of America, New York City
Jacob Potofsky general president, Amalgam. Clothing Workers of America, New York City
Leonard Woodcock, president, United Auto Workers, Detroit
Jerry Wurf, international president, American Federal, State, County and Municipal Employ Washington D.C.
Nathaniel Goldfinger, AFL-CIO
I. W. Abel, Steelworkers
Media [edit]
Jack Anderson, columnist, "Washington Merry-Go-Round"
Jim Bishop, author, columnist, King Features Syndicate
Thomas Braden, columnist, Los Angeles Times Syndicate
D.J.R. Bruckner, Los Angeles Times Syndicate
Marquis Childs, chief Washington correspondent, St. Louis Post Dispatch
James Deakin, White House correspondent, St. Louis Post Dispatch
James Doyle, Washington Star
Richard Dudman, St. Louis Post Dispatch
Jules Duscha [sic], Washingtonian
William Eaton, Chicago Daily News
Rowland Evans Jr., syndicated columnist, Publishers Hall
Saul Friedmann, Knight Newspapers, syndicated columnist
Clayton Fritchey, syndicated columnist Washington correspondent. Harpers
George Frazier, Boston Globe
Lou Gordon, The Detroit News columnist and television talk show host
Katharine Graham, editor, The Washington Post
Pete Hamill, New York Post
Michael Harrington, author and journal member, executive committee Socialist party
Sydney J. Harris, columnist, drama critic and writer of 'Strictly Personal,' syndicated Publishers Hall
Robert Healy, Boston Globe
William Hines, Jr., journalist. science education, Chicago Sun Times
Stanley Karnow, foreign correspondent, Washington Post
Ted Knap, syndicated columnist, New York Daily News
Erwin Knoll, Progressive
Morton Kondracke, Chicago Sun Times
Joseph Kraft, syndicated columnist, Publishers Hall
James Laird, Philadelphia Inquirer
Max Lerner, syndicated columnist, New York Post: author, lecturer, professor (Brandeis University)
Stanley Levey, Scripps Howard
Flora Lewis syndicated columnist on economics
Stuart Loory, Los Angeles Times
Mary McGrory, syndicated columnist on New Left
Frank Mankiewicz, syndicated columnist Los Angeles Times
James Millstone, St. Louis Post Dispatch
Martin Nolan, Boston Globe
Ed Guthman, Los Angeles Times
Thomas O'Neill, Baltimore Sun
John Pierson, Wall Street Journal
William Prochnau, Seattle Times
James Reston, New York Times
Carl Rowan, syndicated columnist, Publishers Hall
Warren Unna, Washington Post, NET
Harriet Van Horne, columnist, New York Post
Milton Viorst, reporter, author, writer
James Wechsler, New York Post
Tom Wicker, New York Times
Garry Wills, syndicated columnist, author of Nixon Agonistes
New York Times
Washington Post
St Louis Post Dispatch
Robert Manning, editor, Atlantic
John Osborne, New Republic
Richard Rovere, New Yorker
Robert Sherrill, Nation
Paul Samuelson, Newsweek
Julian Goodman, chief executive officer, NBC
John Macy, Jr, president, Public Broadcasting Corp, former Civil Service Commission
Marvin Kalb, CBS
Daniel Schorr, CBS
Lem Tucker, NBC
Sander Vanocur, NBC
Celebrities [edit]
Carol Channing, actress
Bill Cosby, comedian
Jane Fonda, actress and political activist
John Lennon, singer and songwriter [7]
Steve McQueen, actor
Joe Namath, former New York Jets Quarterback
Paul Newman, actor
Gregory Peck, actor
Tony Randall, actor
Barbra Streisand, actress and singer
Dick Gregory, comedian
Business People [edit]
Charles B. Beneson, president, Beneson Realty Co.
Nelson Bengston, president, Bengston & Co.
Holmes Brown, vice president, public relations, Continental Can Co.
Benjamin Buttenweiser, limited partner, Kuhn, Loeb & Co.
Lawrence G. Chait, chairman Lawrence G. Chait & Co., Inc.
Ernest R. Chanes, president, Consolidated Water Conditioning Co.
Maxwell Dane, chairman, executive committee, Doyle, Dane & Bernbach, Inc.
Charles H. Dyson, chairman, the Dyson-Kissner Corp.
Norman Eisner, president, Lincoln Graphic Arts.
Charles B. Finch, vice president, Alleghany Power System, Inc.
Katharine Graham, editor and publisher, The Washington Post
Frank Heineman, president, Men's Wear International.
George Hillman, president, Ellery Products Manufacturing Co.
Bertram Lichtenstein, president, Delton Ltd.
William Manealoff, president, Concord Steel Corp.
Gerald McKee, president, McKee, Berger, Mansueto.
Paul Milstein, president, Circle Industries Corp.
Stewart R. Mott, Stewart R. Mott, Associates.
Lawrence S. Phillips, president, Phillips-Van Heusen Corp.
David Rose chairman, Rose Associates.
Julian Roth senior partner, Emery Roth & Sons.
William Ruder, president, Ruder & Finn, Inc.
Si Scharer, president, Scharer Associates, Inc.
Alfred P. Slaner, president, Kayser-Roth Corp.
Roger Sonnabend, chairman, Sonesta International Hotels.
Business Additions [edit]
Business Executives Move for Vietnam Peace and New National Priorities
Morton Sweig, president. National Cleaning Contractors
Alan V. Tishman, executive vice president, Tishman Realty & Construction Co., Inc.
Ira D. Wallach, president, Gottesman & Co., Inc.
George Weissman,, president, Philip Morris Corp.
Ralph Weller, president, Otis Elevator Company
Business [edit]
Clifford Alexander, Jr., member, Equal Opportunity Commission; LBJ's special assistant
Hugh Calkins, Cleveland lawyer, member, Harvard Corp
Ramsey Clark, partner, Weiss, Goldberg, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison; former attorney general
Lloyd Cutler, lawyer, Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering, Washington, D.C.
Henry L. Kimelman, chief fund raiser for McGovern. president, Overview Group
Raymond Lapin, former president, FNMA; corporation executive
Hans F. Loeser, chairman, Boston Lawyers' Vietnam Committee
Robert McNamara, president, World Bank; former Secretary of Defense
Hans Morgenthau, a pioneer in the field of international relations theory.
Victor Palmieri, lawyer, business consultant, real estate executive, Los Angeles.
Arnold Picker, Muskie's chief fund raiser; chairman executive committee, United Artists
Robert S. Pirie, Harold Hughes' chief fund raiser: Boston lawyer.
Joseph Rosenfield, Harold Hughes' money man; retired Des Moines lawyer.
Henry Rowen, president, Rand Corp., former assistant director of budget (LBJ)
R Sargent Shriver, Jr., former US. ambassador to France; lawyer, Strasser, Spiefelberg, Fried, Frank & Kempelman, Washington, D.C. [1972 Democratic vice presidential candidate]
Theodore Sorensen, lawyer, Weiss, Goldberg, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, New York.
Ray Stark, Broadway producer.
Howard Stein, president and director, Dreyfus Corporation.
Milton Semer, chairman, Muskie Election Committee; lawyer, Semer and Jacobsen
George H. Talbot, president, Charlotte Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. ; headed anti-Vietnam ad
Arthur Taylor, vice president, International Paper Company [presently CBS president]
Jack Valenti, president, Motion Picture Association.
Paul Warnke, Muskie financial supporter, former assistant secretary of defense
Thomas I. Watson, Jr.[sic], Muskie financial supporter; chairman, IBM
Academics [edit]
Michael Ellis DeBakey, chairman, department of surgery, Baylor College of Medicine; surgeon-in-chief, Ben Taub General Hospital. Texas
Derek Curtis Bok, dean, Harvard Law School
Kingman Brewster, Jr., president, Yale University.
McGeorge Bundy, president, Ford Foundation.
Noam Chomsky, professor of linguistics, MIT
Carl Djerassi, professor of chemistry, and co-inventor of the first oral contraceptive pill Stanford University
Daniel Ellsberg, professor, MIT.
George Drennen Fischer, member, executive committee. National Education Association
J. Kenneth Galbraith, professor of economics, Harvard
Patricia Harris, educator, lawyer, former US. ambassador; chairman welfare committee Urban League
Walter Heller, regents professor of economics, University of Minnesota
Edwin Land, inventor of instant photography.
Herbert Ley, Jr., former FDA commissioner; professor of epidemiology, Harvard.
Matthew Stanley Meselson, professor of biology, Harvard
Lloyd N. Morrisett, professor and associate director, education program, University of California
Joseph Rhodes, Jr., fellow, Harvard; member, Scranton commission on Campus Unrest
Bayard Rustin, civil rights activist; director, A. Philip Randolph Institute, New York.
David Selden, president, American Federation of Teachers.
Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., professor of humanities, City University of New York
Jeremy Stone, director, Federation of American Scientists
Jerome Wiesner, president, MIT.
Samuel M. Lambert, president, National Education Association

Meade
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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Meade » Tue May 14, 2013 10:54 am

Wait. Sorry - those are anti-government entities, yes. But they are anti Nixon government entities. So they don't count. Nevermind.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby wack wack » Tue May 14, 2013 11:12 am

Meade wrote:Wait. Sorry - those are anti-government entities, yes. But they are anti Nixon government entities. So they don't count. Nevermind.


Exactly.

I'm curious, how many on your list applied for tax-exempt status?

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby snoqueen » Tue May 14, 2013 11:13 am

Meade, a lot of those people are dead.

Can you please stay in the same part of the space-time continuum as everyone else?

I can't help what Nixon did and neither can you. What's your point -- the IRS has always been used as a political tool? That doesn't make it a good idea.

We expect the IRS to follow its own rules. Following rules -- applying rules -- involves gray areas, and in those gray areas judgment is required. The results of those judgments have to withstand public scrutiny. Attempts to game the system happen all the time, and those attempts are also subject to public scrutiny. We're in the process of applying public scrutiny right now.

If you think this is a bad idea, try saying so in a declarative sentence instead of cutting and pasting without explanation, because nobody's going to spend a lot of time figuring out what you're trying to say. The harvest from that endeavor hasn't been shown to be worth much effort.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Meade » Tue May 14, 2013 11:31 am

Snowqueen, I said nevermind. That was for you.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby wack wack » Tue May 14, 2013 11:45 am

Meade wrote:Snowqueen, I said nevermind. That was for you.


I'd still like to know which of those on your list applied for tax-exempt status. That's the issue here.

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Re: BO's IRS Targets Political Enemies

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue May 14, 2013 12:00 pm

snoqueen wrote:Show me another set of potential taxpayers who deserve
scrutiny as much as the Teaps do.


http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... full_list/ :D


snoqueen wrote:We expect the IRS to follow its own rules. Following rules -- applying rules -- involves gray areas, and in those gray areas judgment is required. The results of those judgments have to withstand public scrutiny. Attempts to game the system happen all the time, and those attempts are also subject to public scrutiny. We're in the process of applying public scrutiny right now.


It seems the problem is that the IRS agents were not using their best judgement on each case but rather created an internal rule that on the surface screams of partisan favoritism. Even had they been using their judgement, their decisions appear to have failed the standard you just put forth : they don't withstand public scrutiny. When everyone from the ACLU to both sides of Congress and the President feel compelled to strongly condem the decision making process the IRS agents used, there is definitly a problem with their judgment, even if it might be only one of perception.

The IRS doens't have the sort of public image that lends itself to getting the bennefit of the doubt. Now they've actually handed a huge PR bonanza to the very groups that they thought needed to be checked out more. Rather than claiming the IRS is bad the TPers can now point to the actions of a group of agents and say "See, we told you".

What's worse is, in a way the TPers are right. Barring real evidence to the contrary, every non-profit seeking to be taxed exempt, should have to go through the same hurdles. Personnaly I think that means that everyone has to fill out all the paperwork, whether their name is "Church of Making Education Fantastic" or "We Hate Taxes and the People Who Collect Them"


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