Bill Maher calls it a police state?

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snoqueen
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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby snoqueen » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:08 pm

I wonder why the daily shootings and death tolls in some [Chicago] neighborhoods aren't enough to bring out the armored tactical units. Kids walking home from school are prepared for gunfire, people can't sit on their porches for fear of getting shot. That situation seems to me very similar to having a mad bomber on the loose.


The difference is in Boston they were looking for one individual whose identity was already known. In Chicago they'd have to be looking for hundreds and hundreds of individuals, not all of whom have ever shot their guns before so, according to the rules, they're free to walk around with them until the first time they decide to kill some kid for his jacket or miss and shoot someone sitting on their porch.

Somehow this does not seem like the best deal for the average person in Chicago, but a big show of force by the cops wouldn't last long enough to help much. Neither will it reduce the death rate to have the kids with the jackets and the people on the porches shoot back -- all you'd get is a lot of people enforcing their own agendas on one another. What's needed is a path to a community-supported police department, which is what we saw in Boston, and that would take undoing generations of distrust on both sides. It won't be easy.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby Bludgeon » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:32 pm

Steve Vokers wrote:
jjoyce wrote:It's true and interesting that every major city police department is prepared in this way to handle emergency events, and the Boston bombing was definitely that. With the suspects at large, the city needed to mobilize and protect its citizens and did so with all the resources at hand.

So what determines deployment of the tanks? Explosives? Or just when large numbers of people are in danger on the streets of their neighborhoods?

I don't know much about Boston, but I wonder if there are parts of that city that are anything like Chicago's south side, where gun violence is a plague. I wonder why the daily shootings and death tolls in some neighborhoods aren't enough to bring out the armored tactical units. Kids walking home from school are prepared for gunfire, people can't sit on their porches for fear of getting shot. That situation seems to me very similar to having a mad bomber on the loose.

Pressure cooker bombs aren't protected by the second amendment.

We can't have the government going after people with guns, because freedom...


Alright - review carefully: what are the two of you suggesting? From the context it would appear that JJoyce wants tanks in urban Chicago, and that Steve is making an aside about how great that would be.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby doppel » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:30 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Steve Vokers wrote:Pressure cooker bombs aren't protected by the second amendment.

Don't tell that to DMan.

Do tell Henry to STFU. What does an attack on DMan contribute to this thread? He hasn't posted here. Isn't this stay on topic\cut out meaningless ad hominem attacks week? Henry bitches a lot about ad hominum attacks, then does it himself. Time to jerk his chain, JJ.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby pjbogart » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:43 pm

I don't see any tanks in that picture. I see an armored personnel carrier that has a flip top, kind of like a tank, and probably a gun on top. There's also a camouflage Hummer, but again this photo would have been taken several days after the bombing. Maybe those vehicles are part of Boston's rapid response team, but maybe they were brought in by the National Guard.

I would say that any city the size of Boston certainly has SWAT teams, and probably had them long before 9-11 and certainly after. The notion that policemen carrying AR-15's is symbolic of some sort of tyrannical government, especially under the circumstances, is simply fodder for the delusional anti-government brigade. And yeah, that includes people on the right and the left.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:00 pm

doppel wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
Steve Vokers wrote:Pressure cooker bombs aren't protected by the second amendment.

Don't tell that to DMan.

Do tell Henry to STFU. What does an attack on DMan contribute to this thread? He hasn't posted here.

I didn't bring up the Second Amendment. Go to the gun thread and see DMan's defense of pressure cooker bombs.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby snoqueen » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:27 pm

I think it is not good form to drag people who usually confine their posting to one or two topics into other topics where they have not posted.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby doppel » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:46 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:I didn't bring up the Second Amendment. Go to the gun thread and see DMan's defense of pressure cooker bombs.

No, you didn't bring up the Second Amendment. You brought up the DMan for no good reason. Why didn't you post your "rebuttal" in the gun thread. That 98 page thread of I hate guns\I love my gun rights circle jerk that ought put out of its misery. You're busted Henry. Cuff 'im, JJ.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby GordonFreeman » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:02 pm

Bill also pointed out how many people have died from various causes other than "terrorism". And he pointed out how many bullets German Police fire in one year.

Cops are just scared military wanna-bes that got beat up in grade school.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby pjbogart » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:37 pm

GordonFreeman wrote:Cops are just scared military wanna-bes that got beat up in grade school.


Says a guy who named himself after a video game character.

How's Barney doing?

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby jjoyce » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:13 am

doppel wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:I didn't bring up the Second Amendment. Go to the gun thread and see DMan's defense of pressure cooker bombs.

No, you didn't bring up the Second Amendment. You brought up the DMan for no good reason. Why didn't you post your "rebuttal" in the gun thread. That 98 page thread of I hate guns\I love my gun rights circle jerk that ought put out of its misery. You're busted Henry. Cuff 'im, JJ.


Absolutely correct. I couldn't care less, HV. Have your continuing, useless, irrelevant and nonsensical discussions there.

My point: If kids in Middleton were getting shot at on their way home from school, we'd see a tactical response unit. Remember the sniper in D.C. a few years back who was popping people while they were pumping gas? National horror! A few dozen kids get killed while walking to/from school in Chicago? Send a squad car.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby DCB » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:31 am

jjoyce wrote:[ A few dozen kids get killed while walking to/from school in Chicago? Send a squad car...

when you get around to it.
Last edited by DCB on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:42 am

My point: If kids in Middleton were getting shot at on their way home from school, we'd see a tactical response unit. Remember the sniper in D.C. a few years back who was popping people while they were pumping gas? National horror! A few dozen kids get killed while walking to/from school in Chicago? Send a squad car.


So it's all right if to discuss this we start a second Gun Thread?

I think Chicago has not got the money to dispatch a tactical response unit every time a kid is shot. That's the bottom line. Is this a good thing? Of course not.

Would dispatching a TR unit save any lives? Probably not -- it's reactive, not getting at the roots of the problem whatever they are.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby jman111 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:45 am

jjoyce wrote:This forum is not about guns. In the grand scheme of issues affecting the lives of people living around Madison, guns is a very small one.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby jjoyce » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:04 pm

snoqueen wrote:So it's all right if to discuss this we start a second Gun Thread?


How is talking about the over- or underwhelming response of cops to emergency situations a "Gun Thread"? Seriously?

I think Chicago has not got the money to dispatch a tactical response unit every time a kid is shot.


I think Boston has not got the same money. Does government suddenly spend only the money it has? Since when?

Would dispatching a TR unit save any lives? Probably not -- it's reactive, not getting at the roots of the problem whatever they are.


Yes. Sending a tactical unit to escort kids from school down streets where they're currently getting shot at regularly would save lives, undoubtedly.

So a few years to figure out the roots of the problem, a few more to come up with a solution, a few more to implement, a few more to figure out if they're working, a few more to adjust...

What we saw out of Boston was a city doing its best in the wake of tragedy. There is similar tragedy in other parts of urban America and I hope you're not suggesting that the response we're seeing from politicians (or anyone suggesting that we address, first, the core problems, whatever they are) is anything close to their best.

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Re: Bill Maher calls it a police state?

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:56 pm

it's not. We can agree on that.

And it's fine with me if this doesn't turn into Gun Thread Redux, but that'll take shutting down the regular more-guns-will-solve-our-problems claque around here, so get ready.

But even if Chicago could afford it, having the TR unit escort kids back and forth from school would hardly solve the problem. How would the kids go to the store, how would they play, how would they and their parents go about other activities people in other places take for granted? To and from school isn't the only time these shootings happen.

I'm not saying I have a quick fix, I'm saying that's not it.


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