Guest Workers

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Huckleby
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:25 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:How is your plan, without a path to citizenship, different from Cruz's proposal? It's permanent guest workers.


I confused a path to citizenship for guest workers with a path for the 12 million undocumented people here now. If a path for anyone is included in the bill, then ya, it damn well better be there for guest workers as well. The principle of guest worker path is important to establish.

My first choice is a reasonable path to citizenship. My second choice is no path mentioned anywhere in the legislation. What we're getting is the worst case scenario, in my view.

The path to citizenship that is on the table today is so onerous that it does far more harm than good. That's my point. It might be harder to fix a path that is enshrined in law than it would be to create a much better deal from scratch two years from now. A terrible deal will probably defuse political pressure compared to an unresolved issue.

Bludgeon
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:59 pm

Fifty years from now, the clueless intellectual class at the universities and beyond will be blaming the clueless intellectual class of the early 21st century for making the same naive mistakes as the clueless intellectual class of the early 20th century: devastating almost a whole race of people with the promise of patronage, only to be scarred for generations (and counting) with the marks of dependency. And we'll all be dead so nobody will care or see the irony that in today's modern progressive mind, this is their idea of "helping" them.

You'll never be able to convince all the young would-be radicals of this year's graduating classes in time, but it's never too soon to start regretting what is likely to be a cultural atrocity, that we're all about to join hands and commit to the sound of that sweet, kum ba yah tune.

Huckleby
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:27 pm

Bludgeon wrote: devastating almost a whole race of people with the promise of patronage, only to be scarred for generations (and counting) with the marks of dependency.


Ya, the lazy Hispanics are a bummer, but I think the country really jumped the shark when we let in all those shiftless Irish.

rabble
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby rabble » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:30 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Bludgeon wrote: devastating almost a whole race of people with the promise of patronage, only to be scarred for generations (and counting) with the marks of dependency.


Ya, the lazy Hispanics are a bummer, but I think the country really jumped the shark when we let in all those shiftless Irish.

We've got to get that damn wall built. All those previous civilizations who built walls have done so well.

Huckleby
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:52 pm

heee heee heee. Ya know, that "virtual wall" we are building along the southern border is quite the laughable boondoggle. It will never stop smugglers. Israel couldn't even close a 30 mile stretch between Gaza and Egypt, and they tried real hard. BTW, has anybody noticed the pacific and atlantic oceans?

Besides, most undocumented people come here on visas.

A national ID card (by whatever name) might put a serious dent into illegal immigration.

Bludgeon
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:04 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Bludgeon wrote: devastating almost a whole race of people with the promise of patronage, only to be scarred for generations (and counting) with the marks of dependency.


Ya, the lazy Hispanics are a bummer, but I think the country really jumped the shark when we let in all those shiftless Irish.

It's sad because you don't see it coming even though the welfare class is expanding into Hispanic culture in a big way as we speak, and a huge way, with amnesty. But it's sadder, if you're from Mexico and you really care about your culture, and want more for your childrens' future than just public housing, near-illiteracy (from being stuck in our schools), disincentive to work, and easy excuses for their transgressions.

Also, nice stereotyping. As a frequent lib-watcher I know in advance to be ready during any conversation about race, that a flaring display of stereotypical hypocrisy is soon to follow. So I was glad to have the chance to catch this one on camera.

I was not talking about Hispanics being "lazy". I'm saying we're about to take a couple of generations of people who are used to working hard for a living and rubberstamp them into free housing, free food and free money. It's like taking a runner with 5% body fat and consigning him to life in a wheel chair with free McDonalds forever.

Yeah... I'm sure we're about to steward their transition from migrant to citizen, very, very responsibly. We're here to "help".

DCB
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby DCB » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Bludgeon wrote:I was not talking about Hispanics being "lazy". I'm saying we're about to take a couple of generations of people who are used to working hard for a living and rubberstamp them into free housing, free food and free money.

So the people who have been working harder for less money than everyone else are going to give up their work ethic just because they have citizenship?

I don't think so.

alpuz
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby alpuz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:36 am

As a frequent lib-watcher I know in advance to be ready during any conversation about race, that a flaring display of stereotypical hypocrisy is soon to follow. So I was glad to have the chance to catch this one on camera.


What a weird thing to say. Did you not note the irony when you posted it?

I'm saying we're about to take a couple of generations of people who are used to working hard for a living and rubberstamp them into free housing, free food and free money. It's like taking a runner with 5% body fat and consigning him to life in a wheel chair with free McDonalds forever.


That's even weirder. Please explain.

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Re: Guest Workers

Postby wack wack » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:06 am

Bludgeon wrote:Fifty years from now, the clueless intellectual class at the universities and beyond will be blaming the clueless intellectual class of the early 21st century...


Interesting that you seem to believe the "clueless intellectual class" is others, while we have ample evidence right here in this forum that you've never breathed fresh air in the real world. Your pure theory pretty much defines "clueless intellectual."

Huckleby
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:11 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... tional-id/

Rand Paul is pushing-back against the E-Verify aspect of the immigration bill. E-verify is a system that links various database, and employers will be required to verify applicants' citizenship through it. It creates a sort-of virtual national ID card, which pisses-off anti-government kooks and civil libertarians.

How are we supposed to have an immigration policy if we don't have a good way of knowing whether somebody is a citizen?

Rand Paul is big on sealing the border. Simple solution for simple voters.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:19 pm

You don't have to be a kook to oppose a system for national identity cards (or their cyber equivalent). Can I see your papers?

My main worry is that a permanent underclass of immigrants, with no chance for citizenship), will be created. That has not bode well for other countries that took that approach.

Huckleby
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:50 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:You don't have to be a kook to oppose a system for national identity cards (or their cyber equivalent). Can I see your papers?

My main worry is that a permanent underclass of immigrants, with no chance for citizenship), will be created. That has not bode well for other countries that took that approach.


I don't understand what sort of immigration policy you favor. I don't see how E-verify creates an underclass with no chance for citizenship. Do you think that citizenship should simply not be a requirement for employment?

Henry Vilas
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:00 pm

Sorry, I was trying to make two points. One about a cyber national ID card.

The other was the no chance for citizenship that some have proposed (and the original topic of this conversation).

Huckleby
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:02 pm

OK. I see no alternative to a cyber national ID card. No immigration policy is possible without reliably knowing who is a citizen.

Well, I suppose the alternative is to not worry about citizenship, which is how things worked prior to about 5 years ago.

Bludgeon
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:25 pm

Huckleby wrote:OK. I see no alternative to a cyber national ID card.

Huck, your talk can be spooky. Correct me if I'm wrong, but have people not been immigrating here from other countries and becoming citizens here for generations, without national ID cards? They still get drivers licenses, social security cards, ID. It's like saying, I live in Wisconsin, how can I move to Idaho without a National ID card? It's like you're assuming something that you've yet to justify, which I find disturbing.


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