Christie's remarks

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Bland
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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby Bland » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:19 pm

kurt_w wrote:a clever rope-a-dope plan

What cracks me up about this is that rope-a-dope has been successful for what, like 4 boxers in the entire history of the sport? (And "Rocky III" doesn't count.) Seems to me it's generally a pretty stupid strategy.

But now I'm curious. Am I wrong thinking it almost never works? Especially given that it seems awfully easy to avoid now that we all know what it is. Anyone wanna school me about the effectiveness of the rope-a-dope? Cuz even if I'm totally wrong, at least we won't be talking about politics anymore.

snoqueen
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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby snoqueen » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:34 pm

Call me foolish, but I think Christie is being an old-school pragmatic politician looking out for his constituents, reaching across the aisle to the benefit of both parties, and keeping in mind he's the governor of a basically blue state.

Is he making extra appearances and being extra complimentary to the President?

Only by today's ridiculously polarized and hostile standards.

He's got to get his state back up on its feet, the President is helping (knowing the cost of not helping will be another Brownie/Bush debacle) and if Christie does well by his constituents, he's better positioned for a political future on the national stage. One part of helping his state recover is providing not only organizational leadership, but personal leadership. I think that's just what he's showing (and I've not until now been a fan of his).

Sometimes great performances turn up at odd times. I recall Mayor Giuliani in NYC turning in another one after 9/11, much to the surprise of many. It helped.

By that token, if Christie does his job to high standards he's positioned for a political future on the national stage. Can we say that without cynicism? Past performance is, ordinarily, a way to demonstrate fitness for higher office. Disasters count.

Because until someone shows me otherwise, I think that's the appropriate way to view Christie's last few days of public appearances. The nation is crying out for an end to hyper-polarized ultra-nasty politics, and he's providing an example we badly needed.

So is Obama in not refusing to participate in the public displays of cooperation across party lines.

Detritus
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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby Detritus » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:43 pm

Bland wrote:What cracks me up about this is that rope-a-dope has been successful for what, like 4 boxers in the entire history of the sport? (And "Rocky III" doesn't count.) Seems to me it's generally a pretty stupid strategy.

But now I'm curious. Am I wrong thinking it almost never works? Especially given that it seems awfully easy to avoid now that we all know what it is. Anyone wanna school me about the effectiveness of the rope-a-dope? Cuz even if I'm totally wrong, at least we won't be talking about politics anymore.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the most famous example of it working Muhammad Ali against George Foreman in the Rumble in the Jungle? It worked then because it was so against Ali's character to basically stand there and get punched.

Ah, yes, Wikipedia comes to the rescue again, even suggesting that the term came from that fight.

Having thus exhausted my command of boxing lore (almost--I know there were two great boxers named Sugar), I leave further edifying remarks to other Foronistas.

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby Igor » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:56 pm

Detritus wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the most famous example of it working Muhammad Ali against George Foreman in the Rumble in the Jungle? It worked then because it was so against Ali's character to basically stand there and get punched.


The main two things it accomplished was that it tired out a much stronger puncher (Foreman), and most of the blows fell on Ali's midsection, shoulder and arms instead of his head.

I think Ali running his mouth during the fight might have had as much to do with the strategy working as anything, at least according to Foreman. Foreman ended ahead in the long run, even though he lost the fight.

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby pjbogart » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:29 pm

Bland wrote:What cracks me up about this is that rope-a-dope has been successful for what, like 4 boxers in the entire history of the sport? (And "Rocky III" doesn't count.) Seems to me it's generally a pretty stupid strategy.

But now I'm curious. Am I wrong thinking it almost never works? Especially given that it seems awfully easy to avoid now that we all know what it is. Anyone wanna school me about the effectiveness of the rope-a-dope? Cuz even if I'm totally wrong, at least we won't be talking about politics anymore.


Generically, a "rope-a-dope" is simply leaving attractive bait for your opponent when you already have a devastating rebuttal cued up. I think Obama basically used a prolonged "rope-a-dope" against the birthers, particularly Donald Trump who was reduced from a Presidential front runner to a circus clown in about five minutes at the 2011 Correspondent's Dinner.

It's good strategy because you're able to respond to charges and play offense while you appear to simply be playing defense. You can't blame Obama for being vicious and offensive... he was simply defending himself.

FYI, if you haven't seen that video, you owe it to yourself to click the link.

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby SombreroFallout » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:34 pm

kurt_w wrote:Chris Christie has gotten quite a bit of attention for his notably generous praise of President Obama.
<snip>

Is Christie just speaking the plain truth and ignoring the political consequences? Is he calculating that a bit of highly visible bipartisanship would make himself look good? Or what?


Chris Christie is just telling the truth. Watch this full clip and tell me otherwise:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/ns/ ... /#49607433

Gov. Christie is also just doing his job. He has to get a message out as morning broke day-after Hurricane Sandy. Constituents need to know that bull$h!t politics stops at the water's edge -- and that he & Prznt can find the water's edge. That someone's in command, the lone ranger's on his way, the levels of government federal and state are working well together. There's a lot of things going on in this interview, but cynical exploitation of a disaster for political gain is not one of them.

Christie addresses your question obliquely in that clip. He's got a job to do. One aspect of that is directly informing his constituents that his experience working with President Obama has been stellar and productive. Here in Jersey people need to have it spelled out for them that political games and cheap lies are not getting in the way of getting shit done. Those that think otherwise are radically dismissing and vastly underestimating the scope of what just happened out here.

Gov. Christie obviously is aware of the broader political implications, but that's gravy and he's not thinking about gravy -- at a later interview he said "I'm not in a coma. But the fact is I don’t care."*

Jersey politics runs on personal relationships and raw power. Christie's been gnawing on the President's ankle for months and suddenly he's been gifted a working relationship with all the responsiveness, speed and resources he could ask for. He's telling the truth about his experience with a newly established highly productive working relationship with the President of the United States. He knows Pres. Obama won't brag on himself, and he knows someone's got to. He knows. Christie's heaping praise on the President because flunkies aren't sufficient here to give credit where it's due, and having seen up-close that the cheap campaign lies flying around are just not worthy of his own direct experience with Pres. Obama, nor worthy of the anyone charged with, you know, actual governance, he had to say as much.

Two things about Chris Christie, who his not that popular and practically bristles with flaws:
He loves telling the truth. And he loves getting things done. He relishes that. But he really lives for laying out some blunt truth when it cuts through the cheap lies and political games of amateurs who're getting in the way of getting things done.

He lives for that. But that's collateral and he's intent on the task at hand. There's an enormous amount of work still ahead of him -- he lays that out in the first part of the video above -- and he knows that indulging in petty distractions or squandering time will cost him down the road.

*scroll down for days-later video of Christie's remarks post-Obama's visit:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/1 ... _obam.html

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby Madcity Expat » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:09 pm

pjbogart wrote:...Donald Trump who was reduced from a Presidential front runner to a circus clown in about five minutes at the 2011 Correspondent's Dinner.

FYI, if you haven't seen that video, you owe it to yourself to click the link.


Is there a point at which we can finally declare Donald Trump irrelevant? I suppose not, as long as he has lots of his own money to use to draw attention. But perhaps this helps nudge the cause along:

Trump, from his Twitter account, said, "Obama is a terrible negotiator. He bails out Chrysler and now Chrysler wants to send all Jeep manufacturing to China--and will!"

To which Gilles, [head of product design for Chrysler], from his Twitter account, responded to Trump: "You are full of shit!"


Sorry, I know the Trump thing is off topic. I was going to start a new thread - but Trump is really too trivial for his own thread.

In any case, re: the Christie/Obama thing... I'd like to suggest that what's in a Pol's political interest and what constitutes good governance are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I think our political culture has gotten so disfunctionally cynical and Machiavellian that if we see a politician doing something that might benefit them in any way, we automatically assume crass self-interest. But in a perfect democratic world (ha!) - shouldn't serving the public effectively be the right thing to do AND in the interest of the politician?

Perhaps this tilts too close to Mayor Daley's maxim: "Good government is good politics and politics is good government" - which begs a means/ends question (something Daley didn't trouble himself with very much) - but I'm not sure a little dose of Daley's blunt "get'er done" pragmatism is called for in our hyper-ideological times.

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby Kenneth Burns » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:50 pm

I flipped through a conservative talk radio station in the car earlier today and heard a host say the Sandy response is worse than Katrina. I'm not seeing evidence that this narrative is taking hold.

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby Kenneth Burns » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:20 pm

Going ahead with the marathon is looking like not such a great idea.

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby pjbogart » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:01 pm

They called off the marathon. Pretty outrageous that they even considered devoting clean up crews to the marathon route just so we could watch a few Kenyans sprint for 26 miles straight.

As to the right-wing talkers and Sandy cleanup, Rush was basically saying the same, assuming you were listening to someone else. The government response has been terrible. Unions prevented non-union fuel tankers from entering New York's harbors and everyone knew that Bloomberg was just a latte sipping liberal at heart anyway.

Rush seems oddly cheery considering the uphill battle that Romney is facing. I'm not sure if he's just giving his audience an enthusiasm boost or he really feels optimistic. It will be fun listening to his excuses if Romney faceplants next Tuesday.

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Re: Christie's remarks

Postby fennel » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:18 pm

Well, the Rs do love a catastrophe. They'll even go out of their way to exacerbate one if it suits their purposes. "Economic recovery? Not unless we're in power! ... Let's legislate vaginal probes instead."


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