Sandy as election spoiler excuse

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jman111
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby jman111 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:23 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:If you were in exactly that situation, I would give you the water, assuming I didn't need it for my own survival.

See? There's the rub. The whole "system" is based on profit motive (greed), but it's defended by pretending that people will act altruistically.

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby DCB » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:26 pm

jman111 wrote:And if you don't have 20 bucks? Well, fuck you. You can't have the water. Go find some chump who isn't trying to make a buck to save your ass!

And by all means make sure the Big Government doesn't isn't giving away free water - that would only be encouraging dependency.

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby Mean Scenester » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:30 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:I have $20 and you have a bottle of water. I would rather have the water and you would rather have the $20. We swap. Both of us are satisfied with the transaction and are better off than before.

Your every argument is so goddamned theoretical it makes me want to hurl.

Here's how this exchange really works in the world everyone but Arturo inhabits: I'm thirsty and see Arturo has a bottle of water. I ask to buy it. He quotes me $20 which I reluctantly pay because I have it and I'm goddamn thirsty. After drinking it, and when he least expects it, I pound the living shit out of him and take my $20 back and leave him in a world of hurt to contemplate his dickheaded decision and to experience firsthand the emergency medical treatment he's now in a better position to appreciate.

jman111
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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby jman111 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:31 pm

DCB wrote:...that would only be encouraging dependency.

Not only that, but it would skew the market. The gubmint would be screwing the job creator out of his $19.75 profit on a bottle of water. Oh, the travesty!

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby rabble » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:37 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:Profit during times of scarcity is not a moral matter, as I have stated before.

I love that line.

"How many times do I have to TELL you people something before it finally sinks in? Christ."

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:43 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:After drinking it, and when he least expects it, I pound the living shit out of him and take my $20 back...
This is sad.

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:46 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:After drinking it, and when he least expects it, I pound the living shit out of him and take my $20 back...
This is sad.


Sad? This is essentially how the free market works in the US in 2012.

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby wack wack » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:46 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:After drinking it, and when he least expects it, I pound the living shit out of him and take my $20 back...
This is sad.


This is reality, the one I'd take, too. It's interesting where you think the line is drawn.

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby O.J. » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:50 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:After drinking it, and when he least expects it, I pound the living shit out of him and take my $20 back...
This is sad.


But if the opportunity cost of Mean choosing this action is less than the utility provided from such an exercise, he made the correct decision.

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby rrnate » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:51 pm

Making Arturo sad is not a moral matter.

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:53 pm

jman111 wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote:If you were in exactly that situation, I would give you the water, assuming I didn't need it for my own survival.

See? There's the rub. The whole "system" is based on profit motive (greed), but it's defended by pretending that people will act altruistically.

How is this any different that in a government-run system based on coercive resource distribution? If there are scarce resources (there are), then at some level needs will not be met to everyone's complete satisfaction. And depending on the degree of scarcity, this might even mean life or death outcomes in specific circumstances. This happens in a free market and happens in a controlled market. At the outer limits of any "system", things will break down and other actions will be taken. If the government fails to quickly rescue a family stuck on the rooftop of their flooded home, is it a core failure of the government system when a neighbor with a jonboat altruistically picks them up first?

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:54 pm

O.J. wrote:But if the opportunity cost of Mean choosing this action is less than the utility provided from such an exercise, he made the correct decision.
Correct, but that's a big "if".

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby jman111 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:55 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:After drinking it, and when he least expects it, I pound the living shit out of him and take my $20 back...
This is sad.

But when a water-hoarder deprives a dying man of water because the margin is too slim, well, that's life (for some).

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:56 pm

fisticuffs wrote:Sad? This is essentially how the free market works in the US in 2012.
You've got to be kidding. If you go to Target and don't like the high price of something, you think it's "essentially how it works" to assault the manager?

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Re: Sandy as election spoiler excuse

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:59 pm

jman111 wrote:But when a water-hoarder deprives a dying man of water because the margin is too slim, well, that's life (for some).
True. But you haven't described under what conditions the margin is so slim. I would appreciate an ingenuous response.


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