CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

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Broadsheet
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Broadsheet » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:46 am

On Oct. 25, 12 days before the election, the Oshkosh Corp., a major federal military contractor, announced the layoff of 450 employees. The very next day they released their fourth-quarter report. The Journal Sentinel story said: "Oshkosh Corp. on Friday reported a higher quarterly profit and reaffirmed its forecast that adjusted earnings would double by fiscal 2015 -- one day after it announced the layoff of 450 production workers."

On Nov. 16, the company announced plans to buy back $300 million in shares of its own stock. You'd think with all that spare cash they could have found ways to keep their people working. Job creation and retention is simply not a corporate value compared to stock valuation, which sets the compensation and bonuses for executives.
Last edited by Broadsheet on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:58 am

Broadsheet wrote:On Oct. 25, 12 days before the election, the Oshkosh Corp., a major federal military contractor, announced the layoff of 450 employees. The very next day they released their fourth-quarter report. The Journal Sentinel story said: "Oshkosh Corp. on Friday reported a higher quarterly profit and reaffirmed its forecast that adjusted earnings would double by fiscal 2015 -- one day after it announced the layoff of 450 production workers."

On Nov. 16, the company announced plans to buy back $300 million in shares of its own stock. You'd think with all that spare cash they could have kept their people working through the holidays. Or found other things for them to do to keep them employed. Job creation and retention is simply not a corporate value compared to stock valuation, which sets the compensation and bonuses for executives.



So they should just keep guys around building Military vehicles in case someone needs a few dozen in a hurry? Or maybe just pay them to sit around polishing their tools? I don't think you can blame politics for this layoff, at least not in the manner you are implying. These layoffs were caused by defense budget cuts. When the army stops buying trucks, people who make trucks stop having work to do.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Broadsheet » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:09 pm

They have not stopped buying trucks, and are in line for a big new contract. Why is loyalty to your workforce so difficult to understand? There are ways to shift people, reduce days, offer furloughs, but not sever their health care and basic employment relationship. In the 1980s, S.C. Johnson de-mechanized some packing lines and used hand packing until business picked up, because they thought it was a point of honor not to lay off their workers and disrupt their community.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:41 pm

So you think they should have the workers who don't currently have work, hand wrap the trucks for delivery?

http://www.jsonline.com/business/oshkos ... 53571.html

Do some research, they are currently bidding for a big contract, but they won't know if they have that contract for 2 years. The company has also sought ways to reduce layoffs including stretching out it's delivery schedule for existing work and selling to foreign markets. Loyalty to your workforce is great, but to expect a company to pay 750 people who won't actually have anything to work on is a great way to go out of business. This isn't a case where the a company is going bankrupt while giving huge bonuses. The management is making a responsible decision to keep their costs at reasonable level to match their projected income. The other 3500 workers will continue to have a job because of it.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:45 pm

So how many executives are they laying off? All those upper echelon guys are absolutely necessary while they wait to see if they got those contracts?

You're being a great apologist.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:16 pm

rabble wrote:So how many executives are they laying off? All those upper echelon guys are absolutely necessary while they wait to see if they got those contracts?

You're being a great apologist.



good questions, I have no idea as to the answer on either. My point was that this layoff was hardly in line with that omg Obama won politically motivated layoffs.

However

Since most senior executives aren't generally involved in assembling things, I'm guessing the actual work they do won't be reduced by much (and since some are probably working to find new contracts, might actually be increased). In addition Oshkosh Corp has a much broader scope than just military vehicles, much of which is scaling up currently.

I do find it interesting that there isn't an explanation of why the workers facing layoffs aren't being transferred to other divisions or if that is possible.

And you're being dense. Do you really believe that a company is responsible for paying for resources beyond their needs? Where do you draw the line? Should Oshkosh Corp also buy extra parts that they won't use so that their suppliers can keep paying their workers as well?

For that mater, do you spend beyond your income to ensure that the American worker has a job? What poor financial choices are you making to help out our working class Rabble?

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:22 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:And you're being dense. Do you really believe that a company is responsible for paying for resources beyond their needs? Where do you draw the line? Should Oshkosh Corp also buy extra parts that they won't use so that their suppliers can keep paying their workers as well?

For that mater, do you spend beyond your income to ensure that the American worker has a job? What poor financial choices are you making to help out our working class Rabble?

A great apologist tactic. Accuse people with other viewpoints of being dense.

Followed by the "What are YOU doing, you lazy hypocrite?" gambit, as if I had as much influence as the "job creators" you're worshipping.

Yeah. They need every executive they've got to run the company while they throw out every worker they can, because they have so much love for the workers they haven't discarded yet.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby snoqueen » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Maybe it's just Oshkosh's way of resetting everyone's seniority to zero when they're rehired, to avoid paying benefits.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:53 pm

rabble wrote:Followed by the "What are YOU doing, you lazy hypocrite?" gambit, as if I had as much influence as the "job creators" you're worshipping.

Yeah. They need every executive they've got to run the company while they throw out every worker they can, because they have so much love for the workers they haven't discarded yet.


One minute, I need to go burn some incense at the shrine...

I noticed you didn't answer the one real question I asked (and to be fair I stupidly buried it in a personal attack). Why should a company keep more staff on hand than they need to meet their demand? Isn't that the kind of fiscal irresponsibility we need to discourage in companies? Should management face the ax for the same reason? Absolutely, but you are comparing apples to oranges. You can't determine management needs on the same metric as you determine production needs.

If the layoffs were caused by financial woes then the executives should absolutely be let go at the same rate (or higher) than production workers, but it wasn't that kind of layoff.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:08 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:If the layoffs were caused by financial woes then the executives should absolutely be let go at the same rate (or higher) than production workers, but it wasn't that kind of layoff.


So you're simply going to take the CEO's word for it.

Also, how bout this little tidbit.

The union says it will consider seeking the return of work that's been outsourced and other measures to reduce the impact of the layoffs.


So they could stop outsourcing work, which may cost more, but would retain employees. Unless the work outsourced is polishing tools.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:27 pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... t=My+Yahoo

I'm sure Meg and the executives responsible for this will just fire a bunch of employees to make up the difference, and keep their huge salaries and bonuses. It's the American way!

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:31 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:If the layoffs were caused by financial woes then the executives should absolutely be let go at the same rate (or higher) than production workers, but it wasn't that kind of layoff.


So you're simply going to take the CEO's word for it.

And the reporter's and my understanding of how defense spending is going down. Dear lord, I would be shocked if I could find more than ten people on this forum that don't want defense spending cut. Does it not occur to you that defense spending doesn't all magically disappear into Halliburton's pockets, but that some of it goes to buy real things built by real American workers?

Stebben84 wrote:Also, how bout this little tidbit.

The union says it will consider seeking the return of work that's been outsourced and other measures to reduce the impact of the layoffs.


So they could stop outsourcing work, which may cost more, but would retain employees. Unless the work outsourced is polishing tools.


Saw that. the fact that it was the only comment from the union actually said more to me that the comment itself. Clearly the union isn't up in arms over these layoffs, possibly because they have an understanding of how defense contracts work. Even if they do bring some outsourced work back, that would only lessen the impact of the layoffs, not cancel them altogether.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:34 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Saw that. the fact that it was the only comment from the union actually said more to me that the comment itself.


Is that all the union had to say or is that all the article quotes? You seem to treat this story as the ultimate source for the facts.

Francis Di Domizio wrote: Even if they do bring some outsourced work back, that would only lessen the impact of the layoffs, not cancel them altogether.


I fully agree. We'll see if they bring back some of the outsourced jobs. If not, then they could give a shit about keeping the jobs here.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:21 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Saw that. the fact that it was the only comment from the union actually said more to me that the comment itself.


Is that all the union had to say or is that all the article quotes? You seem to treat this story as the ultimate source for the facts.


Not at all

Some nice details in this piece

the local UAW pretty much confines itself to
expressing concern about the layoffs’ impact on the community and working families.
and asking to bring back outsourced jobs. The UAW Local president declined to comment further.

I'm sure UAW can see this is just an adjustment from a time of high employment when the company had a large government contract to meet.

Stebben84 wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote: Even if they do bring some outsourced work back, that would only lessen the impact of the layoffs, not cancel them altogether.


I fully agree. We'll see if they bring back some of the outsourced jobs. If not, then they could give a shit about keeping the jobs here.


I guess that depends on where the outsourced work was outsourced to. If 5 employees at a shop down the road are let go so that 5 employees of Oshkosh Corp can keep their job, I don't see that as a net positive unless you happen to be one of the 5 employees who get to keep going to your job at Oshkosh Corp.

Also Rabble it does look like some management is being laid off as well though it doesn't say that specifically. It looks like 50 managers and/or office personal are being laid off as well.
In a press release, the company said reduced U.S. Defense Department spending will require it to reduce its production workforce in Oshkosh from about 4,000 to 3,500. The company’s total Oshkosh workforce, including managers and office personnel, will be reduced from 4,500 to 4,000.

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby peripat » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:35 pm

I guess it is time to face the truth. Businesses, in general, care nothing for the good of the country or the welfare of the citizens of that country. This is, after all, one of the reasons we need to have government. Anyone who is expecting business to lead us out of the darkness (or the recession or any other damn thing) or do anything altruistic or patriotic or humanistic is simply out of their mind.


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