Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Henry Vilas
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:16 pm

So I assume that means you would like to see Reynolds v. Sims overturned.

Stebben84
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Stebben84 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:31 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?


Horrible idea. First off, where do you draw the line on these special perks. Second keeping track would be a nightmare. Think of how much it would cost. Third, it's just totally unfair.

johnfajardohenry wrote:Perhaps another vote for military service.


What if I am unfit to serve. Unfair.

johnfajardohenry wrote:Perhaps another vote for every $10,000 (or fraction) in taxes paid. (Pay $100m and get 10 extra votes)


So wealthy people get more votes? Some kid gets born into a rich family, does jack shit but live off of mommy and daddies money and he gets extra votes? Bullshit.

johnfajardohenry wrote:The basis is that the people who are pulling the wagon should have more say in the direction it is going than the people riding on it.


Um, I bust my ass at work and am not riding on any "wagon" yet I don't merit as many votes as some dipshit running a hedge fund. So if someone loses their job and goes broke for a while, you just say "screw you, no more extra votes for you"

Dumb.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby snoqueen » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:05 pm

I can't believe he even posted this merit-vote comment.

The whole idea of one person, one vote is to level the playing field so that even those with no assets, no social standing, no nothing still get a vote equal to the richest hedge fund manager.

This is important not only in effect, but in principle. In a democracy, all of us are equal in the voting booth. Every citizen is equally worthy of civil rights, civil protection, and of a vote. It's fundamental not only to the United States but to western society.

The opposite principle, that merit can be purchased by the wealthy in the form of indulgences from the Pope, was pretty much abandoned centuries ago in both religious and secular quarters.

The electoral college pretty much smacks that one-person one vote principle down, but it's not what we're discussing at the moment.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby kurt_w » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:45 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:The problem is not repos or demmies. There is not a nickle's worth of difference between them


I think the Iraq War was a pretty big difference.

Bush started it, Obama ended it (over the angry protests of the GOP). Republicans in the House & Senate voted for the Iraq war resolution, 263 to 7. (Yes, only seven Republicans voted against it). Democrats voted against the war, 111 to 147.

Ignoring, for the moment, the human cost of the war, that's a $1.9 trillion to $3 trillion difference between the parties, depending on how you calculate the total budgetary cost.

Elections may seem like small things, but they can have vast and unforeseen consequences. The Iraq war was a horrible, awful mistake. One of the main reasons I'm voting for Obama is because he kept his campaign promise to end the war and bring the troops home.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Huckleby » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:58 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Huckleby wrote: Democrats have been trying for 100 years to get some sort of health care guaranteed for poor and working class people.

So did Progressive Republicans (such as T.R.) at one point in time.


I was counting T.R. as a Democrat, just as I think of the Dixiecrats of the 60's as Republicans. I guess there is some truth to the second delusion, since the Dixiecrats became Republicans.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby kurt_w » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:03 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:There is not a nickle's worth of difference between them


kurt_w wrote:Ignoring, for the moment, the human cost of the war, that's a $1.9 trillion to $3 trillion difference between the parties, depending on how you calculate the total budgetary cost.


Or, in other words, the Iraq War is a 50 trillion nickel difference between the parties, give or take 10 trillion nickels.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Steve Vokers » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:09 pm

I totally think people should choose not to exercise their rights because of anonymous comments posted on an Internet forum.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:59 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:So I assume that means you would like to see Reynolds v. Sims overturned.


Reynolds v Sims is mainly about making sure that Congressional (and other voting districts) are evenly distributed by population so I don't see how that would be affected.

In particular I doubt it would have any effect on voting for presidential electors.

I think multiple ballots, if they work for elector presidential electors, should then be extended to other elected positions. At present I was really only talking about selection of presidential electors.

The Constitution is pretty explicit how these shall be selected.

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors,..."

So states have considerable flexibility in how they select the electors.

John Henry

John Henry

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:11 pm

kurt_w wrote:I think the Iraq War was a pretty big difference.


Who voted for the 2 declarations of war? (AUMFs)

the Demmies supported both pretty strongly.

Yes, Obama got our uniformed troops out of Iraq. By replacing many with civilian contractors.

On the other hand he doubled the number in Afghanistan, where we have even less national interest.

He has put troops in Uganda.

He got us into Libya.

And just in the past few days he put uniformed troops into Jordan.

And then there are the drones. How many people have those killed? How many were innocents?

And the American citizens he murdered with drones.

And so on...

So don't talk to me about how pacific and unwarlike Obama is, Nobel Peace Prize notwithstanding

He and the demmies who let him get away his murderousness are to blame. As are most of the repos who let him get away with it.

Demmies are great at getting us into wars. Wilson with Mexico, central America and WWI, FDR with WWII, Truman with Korea, JFK/LBJ with Vietnam.

Your demmies aren't so pure and clean of hands. They are all a bunch of murderous thugs. Both parties with few exceptions. They need to all be thrown out.

John Henry

Henry Vilas
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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:13 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:So I assume that means you would like to see Reynolds v. Sims overturned.


Reynolds v Sims is mainly about making sure that Congressional (and other voting districts) are evenly distributed by population so I don't see how that would be affected.

That decision affirmed one person, one vote as a constitutional mandate. Stare decisis and all that.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Stella_Guru » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:19 pm

Donald wrote:I voted for third party candidates (and regretted it),

Why the regret?

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby kurt_w » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:25 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:
kurt_w wrote:I think the Iraq War was a pretty big difference.


Who voted for the 2 declarations of war? (AUMFs)

the Demmies supported both pretty strongly.


I gave the numbers in my comment up-thread.

Republicans in Congress supported the Iraq War resolution 263 to 7. Democrats opposed it, 111 to 147.

No, the Democrats aren't perfect. But there is a vast difference between the two parties. When Obama took office, there were over 100,000 US troops in Iraq. Ending that war was actually a pretty big deal.

Same thing on torture. The Obama administration hasn't gone as far as some people would like -- they didn't put Bush's lawyers on trial for authorizing torture. But at least Obama issued an executive order banning the use of torture. Romney's advisors have suggested repealing that order.

Once again, the Democrats aren't perfect, but they are a vast improvement over the sole alternative.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby DCB » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:51 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
So wealthy people get more votes?

Dumb.

That's the way it is now. far-away-Johnny's idea would just formalize it.

Yup.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby nutria » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:27 pm

KidCapitol wrote:...I'll-Bomb-Ya...
..Hope and Change and instead we got Nope and Deranged....
...Dumbya...
...Mitt Dummy...
....Paul Lyin...
...Wanker....

I've decided that to vote is just a waste of time and my one vote no longer matters.
Anyone else feel this way?


So how is this a problem for you? I wasn't aware that twelve-year-olds were allowed to vote.

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Re: Anybody else not going to vote anymore?

Postby Huckleby » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 pm

nutria wrote:So how is this a problem for you? I wasn't aware that twelve-year-olds were allowed to vote.


They can only vote in Democratic precincts using discount cards from Chucky Cheese as ID.


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