Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

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minicat
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Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby minicat » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:41 am

So, the GOP is again talking about a no exceptions ban on all abortion as a constitutional amendment.

All supporters of such a proposal also support a constitutional ban on the death penalty, right? And also a constitutional ban on going to war with anyone?

Because, you know, if you don't, YOU ARE HYPROCRITES.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby wack wack » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:00 am

minicat wrote:So, the GOP is again talking about a no exceptions ban on all abortion as a constitutional amendment.

All supporters of such a proposal also support a constitutional ban on the death penalty, right? And also a constitutional ban on going to war with anyone?

Because, you know, if you don't, YOU ARE HYPROCRITES.


I was thinking about this during the WPR show on this topic this morning, and I have an idea: how about, when a woman wants or needs an abortion, the "baby" is removed immediately and given to a pro-life family to raise. That way the baby lives, the sinner is free from her obligations and the Lord's servants secure entrance to heaven for at least one more day.

Wait, what's that? Can't do that? Not viable? Couldn't remove the baby and give it to someone else? Wouldn't survive? Then how can it possibly... oh, never mind.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby minicat » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:08 am

Yeah, that hour of radio is exactly what prompted my rant ... and in particular the supporters who kept calling in and sanctimoniously harping that life begins at the instant of conception.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby gargantua » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:26 am

minicat wrote:Yeah, that hour of radio is exactly what prompted my rant ... and in particular the supporters who kept calling in and sanctimoniously harping that life begins at the instant of conception.


They're entitled to their beliefs.....but not to impose them on others. Unfortunately part of their belief system is that they have to try to impose it on others. They will never, ever, give up.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby wack wack » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:27 am

Well, all of those callers should know they did make a difference today... they cost me $1000: $500 to Planned Parenthood, $500 to Freedom from Religion Foundation.

I was that pissed off.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby minicat » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:44 am

They're indeed entitled to their beliefs, and entitled to express them ... but I think it's fair to question a professed belief that shifts depending on the situation.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:46 am

If a personhood amendment is ratified and abortion is treated like murder, then every miscarriage must be investigated to see if it was induced.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Igor » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:17 am

minicat wrote:So, the GOP is again talking about a no exceptions ban on all abortion as a constitutional amendment.

All supporters of such a proposal also support a constitutional ban on the death penalty, right? And also a constitutional ban on going to war with anyone?

Because, you know, if you don't, YOU ARE HYPROCRITES.


I don't know if you will find someone here in favor of a no exceptions ban. I'm sure I am enough of a pro-lifer for you to vent at though.

I am generally opposed to the death penalty, because the bar is too low and our batting average is nowhere near 100%. I have no moral objections to capitol punishment.

I am OK with most stated exceptions for abortion that have been proposed. Incest, rape, life of the mother. If you want consistency in my position, we can also abort babies guilty of heinous crimes.

I am against abortion in general for a number of reasons. While I do not think that life begins with a fertilized cell, I also think that it exists before the third trimester. I think it is ironic to tell that kid in 1st grade that they are special if the only thing that makes them special is that their birth mother decided not to abort. I think that many abortions are conducted because women feel that giving a baby up for adoption somehow makes them a bad person, or that they will be frowned upon if it is found out.

I have no problem with extensive education about how pregnancy happens and how it can be prevented in school. Give away condoms on street corners if you like.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby wack wack » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:33 am

Igor wrote:I think it is ironic to tell that kid in 1st grade that they are special if the only thing that makes them special is that their birth mother decided not to abort.


Separate from the abortion issue, I think we need to stop telling first graders they're special.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby minicat » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:42 am

Igor, I may not agree with all of what you said but your position as stated seems consistent to me. And despite the snarky way I started this thread I'm not looking to flame anyone.

The sort of person who's driving me up the wall is someone who argues against abortion, without exception, and claims religious reasons ... but also supports the death penalty, the "War on Terror" and things like the Castle Doctrine. The ban supporters on the radio this morning kept talking about how it was simple logic that life begins at conception (must be a new talking point) ... well, then they should also be expected to maintain a logical consistency in opposing killing in every way.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby wack wack » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:54 am

But at least in regard to callers this morning, there's no logical consistency to maintain! There was absolutely no logic in what they called logical.

The best was the woman who who peppered her moronica with, "I mean, duh..."

Duh, indeed.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby pjbogart » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:14 am

I think most pro-life, pro-capital punishment folks distinguish between an innocent baby and a not so innocent adult. They get tripped up with the whole "sanctity of life" talk, but overall I can see why they draw a distinction between the two. Furthermore, I think it's part of our psyche to act as protectors of the weak and vulnerable. If you're walking down State Street and some random Joe steps into the street, you hardly notice. If a toddler does the same your attention is drawn to the child immediately. It's human nature.

Capital Punishment:
Image

Abortion:Image

It works for animals too...

Culling the herd:
Image

Animal cruelty:
Image

Basically, I think it's an involuntary, visceral reaction. When some people think about abortion, they think about a cute little innocent baby. I don't think that will ever change.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby wack wack » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:20 am

If that were an accurate visual representation of "abortion," I might agree. It's not.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Ducatista » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:20 am

minicat wrote:... but I think it's fair to question a professed belief that shifts depending on the situation.

That's precisely why I don't understand anti-choicers who are OK with abortion in the case of rape or incest. If that's a little tiny person in there, how can the circumstance of his or her conception make it OK to kill the little shaver?

Which is not to say I agree with the hard-liners, either. Their views are destructive and wrong-headed, and were manufactured and promoted by groups who cared more about political, social, and economic dominance than about the sanctity of a sack of cells.

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby pjbogart » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:46 am

wack wack wrote:If that were an accurate visual representation of "abortion," I might agree. It's not.


And I'm certainly not claiming that it is. But there's no point in getting too angry with the right-to-life folks who have that picture in their head when they talk about abortion. It's easier for you to see their point of view because you're not the one having a visceral, almost reflexive reaction.

You say "abortion" and they think "cute little baby". For them, there is no middle ground.


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