Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

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HawkHead
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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby HawkHead » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:38 am

Meade wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Was Teddy Roosevelt a socialist? He certainly was called that by some when he called for progressive legislation from his bully pulpit.

Depends on what your own definition of socialist is. I would say yes, Roosevelt's political philosophy shifted toward socialism. "We stand at Armageddon and we battle for the Lord."


Telling statement right there.

Socialism is what you want it to be. That allows conservatives to blame all evil on "socialists" that was really done by fascist conservatives.

Socialism is very well defined. Just because you want to change the definition of a word doesn't make it so.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:40 am

Bland wrote:And here I thought all socialists were godless heathens......

Our Pledge of Allegiance was written by a Baptist minister who was a Christian socialist, for a flag maker's newspaper ad (and it did not contain the "under God" clause).

Meade
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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Meade » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:03 am

HawkHead wrote:Socialism is very well defined.

You're right. I should have said "depends on what your own theory of socialism is".

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby HawkHead » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:10 am

Meade wrote:
HawkHead wrote:Socialism is very well defined.

You're right. I should have said "depends on what your own theory of socialism is".


Strike two, just because you theorize what socialism is doesn't change the actual definition.

Meade
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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Meade » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:13 am

HawkHead wrote:Socialism is what you want it to be. That allows conservatives to blame all evil on "socialists" that was really done by fascist conservatives.

All evil? I don't think so. Conservatives blame plenty of evil on non-socialists. The problem is - every time socialism has been applied as a stated governmental goal, whatever the specific theory, it has sooner or later led to less freedom, less individual liberty, and more misery.

That's really, in a nutshell, what this presidential election comes down to: Do we want to be led by a president who believes in less limited central-controlling government or more?

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby jman111 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:15 am

Meade wrote:That's really, in a nutshell, what this presidential election comes down to...

Uhh, no it's not.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:46 am

Meade wrote: every time socialism has been applied as a stated governmental goal, whatever the specific theory, it has sooner or later led to less freedom, less individual liberty, and more misery.

What do you mean by "socialism"? If you mean Cuba-like totalitarianism, I agree.

The scandanavian countries have a higher living standard than the U.S., better health care, a happier population by all measures, and most critically, much greater upward mobility. For the Anerican Dream, move to Sweden.

What specifically do you mean by socialism? All the advanced countries in the world now have mixed economies.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Meade » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:10 pm

Huckleby wrote:The scandanavian countries have a higher living standard than the U.S.

Which scandanavian country is "socialist"?

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:24 pm

Meade wrote:
Huckleby wrote:The scandanavian countries have a higher living standard than the U.S.

Which scandanavian country is "socialist"?

As Huckleby noted, all industrial nations have mixed economies. On the continuum from pure, laizzes-faire capitalism to pure, unadultrated socialism, the Scandinavian nations are closer to the left than to the right when compared to our own mixed economy.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:45 pm

Scandinavian countries are “socialist” in some senses and vibrantly capitalist in other senses. They are “socialist” in the sense that they have very high taxes with very generous social welfare services provided by the state, the famous “cradle-to-grave” welfare state. They are vibrantly capitalist in the sense that they have low levels of interference in markets by the government, low levels of regulation, low levels of nationalization of industry and capital, and almost no protectionism.


http://frontpagemag.com/2011/steven-pla ... lism-work/

Use the google Larry, it's your friend.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby HawkHead » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:50 pm

Meade wrote:
HawkHead wrote:Socialism is what you want it to be. That allows conservatives to blame all evil on "socialists" that was really done by fascist conservatives.

All evil? I don't think so. Conservatives blame plenty of evil on non-socialists. The problem is - every time socialism has been applied as a stated governmental goal, whatever the specific theory, it has sooner or later led to less freedom, less individual liberty, and more misery.

That's really, in a nutshell, what this presidential election comes down to: Do we want to be led by a president who believes in less limited central-controlling government or more?


Complains about my absolute by using an absolute.

My point was really that Nazism in this thread and others is being called "socialism" and a "leftist" problem. We all know that isn't true no matter how much you try and redefine words.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:55 pm

The Democrats aren't throwing that word "socialism" around, it's the Republicans. So it is up to them to explain themselves.

they call Obama a socialist. Well, there can be no argument that his policies come close to the socialism of western europe. What do you mean?

Mitt Romney praises the health care system of Israel, yet it is far more government heavy than Obamacare, a.k.a. Romneycare.

Is Mitt a socialist, even in is 2012 incarnation?

As Vince Lombardia once said, "What the hell is going on here?"
Last edited by Huckleby on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Huckleby
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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:58 pm

ps. the right wingers in my alternative universe forum frequently taunt me with the phrase "2 + 2 = 5". This is a bumper sticker definition of liberal thinking.

That phrase came from a George Orwell book. Since Orwell was a socialist, he obviously made a distinction between socialism and the totalitarianism of his imagination. Why do right wingers canonize a socialist?

What the hell is going on around here?

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Meade » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:12 pm

Huckleby wrote:they call Obama a socialist.

Some people have even called Romney a socialist. So what?

Both Obama and Romney have good intentions. Neither should be trusted.

The essential difference is that Obama trusts in government to take care of free people and Romney trusts in free people to govern themselves. Obama wants government to coercively redistribute wealth. Romney wants individuals acting freely in free markets to redistribute wealth, goods, and services.

Obama has had four years. He's come up short. Elect Romney. If his leadership is found wanting, we can always go back and give Obama a second try.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby rabble » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:16 pm

Yep. Because the Republicans have shown how amenable to compromise they are. And they were so dead set against the bailout.

Sure, while Bush was in office they were for it, but then Obama got elected and they saw the light.


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