Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

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wack wack
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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby wack wack » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:22 am

Huckleby wrote:Jesus H. Christ!! When did government officials get in the business of imposing values tests on the beliefs, not the behavior, of private citizens?


You don't really believe this problem starts with the anti- anti-gay, do you?

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:34 am

wack wack wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Jesus H. Christ!! When did government officials get in the business of imposing values tests on the beliefs, not the behavior, of private citizens?


You don't really believe this problem starts with the anti- anti-gay, do you?

The problem had nothing to do with pro-gay or anti-gay. The problem began when government officials implicitly threatened a citizen for their exercise of free speech.

If you think the Chic-fil-a guy's statement is a problem, fine, I agree, don't eat there, or go protest. The huge media attention began when the mayors acted like idiots, and unfortunately the conservatives have won this public relations skirmish in a rout.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby wack wack » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:12 pm

Huckleby wrote:
wack wack wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Jesus H. Christ!! When did government officials get in the business of imposing values tests on the beliefs, not the behavior, of private citizens?


You don't really believe this problem starts with the anti- anti-gay, do you?

The problem had nothing to do with pro-gay or anti-gay. The problem began when government officials implicitly threatened a citizen for their exercise of free speech.

If you think the Chic-fil-a guy's statement is a problem, fine, I agree, don't eat there, or go protest. The huge media attention began when the mayors acted like idiots, and unfortunately the conservatives have won this public relations skirmish in a rout.


Really? So if we remove the gay/anti-gay issue from the equation, we still have a problem?

Nope. We then have nothing. So gay/anti-gay is inherent to the issue.

And I don't know what universe you're rolling in these days, but the conservatives haven't come close to winning this skirmish. The mere suggestion is laughable.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:27 pm

wack wack wrote:Really? So if we remove the gay/anti-gay issue from the equation, we still have a problem?

Nope. We then have nothing. So gay/anti-gay is inherent to the issue.

The anti-gay aspect has been overwhelmed by the free-speech issue.
Mike Huckabee Chick-fil-a Appreciation Day was a spectacular success, did you see the waiting lines on media reports?
Those numbers didn't turn out because they are fired-up about gay marriage, which has largely receded as hot button issue. They were incensed at the government heavy-handedness. This is the point that conservative media worked so successfully. The right was lobbed a fat softball to hit out of the park.

wack wack wrote:And I don't know what universe you're rolling in these days, but the conservatives haven't come close to winning this skirmish. The mere suggestion is laughable.

OK, wack wack. this was a great political vitory for the Dems.

I saw Van Jones, the most strident of visible lefties, on Sunday TV raising the white flag. He pummelled Rahm Emanuel and other mayors for their gaff. Hell, John Stewart hammered the ridiculous, inappropriate attack on the chicken man.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby rabble » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:57 pm

Huckleby wrote:Those numbers didn't turn out because they are fired-up about gay marriage, which has largely receded as hot button issue. They were incensed at the government heavy-handedness.

Okay I've gotta go ahead disagree with you there, Huck. The free speech government thing was just a wrapper. The real deal was the homophobia.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby wallrock » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:12 pm

rabble wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Those numbers didn't turn out because they are fired-up about gay marriage, which has largely receded as hot button issue. They were incensed at the government heavy-handedness.

Okay I've gotta go ahead disagree with you there, Huck. The free speech government thing was just a wrapper. The real deal was the homophobia.

Yup. The batshit email forwards I got from my great-uncle regarding the appreciation day were all about defending the "sanctity of traditional biblical marriage" with only the passing mention of free speech rights.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:36 pm

rabble wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Those numbers didn't turn out because they are fired-up about gay marriage, which has largely receded as hot button issue. They were incensed at the government heavy-handedness.

Okay I've gotta go ahead disagree with you there, Huck. The free speech government thing was just a wrapper. The real deal was the homophobia.


I have to disagree as well. Look who basically organized this. It was Huckabee. Do you know him to be a staunch advocate for free speech, or do you know him to be a pretty hard core religious politician/commentator. He fired up the gay hatin' religious folk.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:26 pm

First of all, it is wrong to assume that religous conservatives are "gay haters." Although I'm sure there are plenty of haters in their ranks.

Back in the 1950's, interracial marriage was opposed by 95% of the population, both black and white. Were all those people "racists"? Well society was clearly racist by our standards today. But opposition to marriage was more built on tradition, mindset, religion then overt hatred of other races.

I see the anti-gay marriage people today as *exactly* like the interracial opposers of the 1950's. They are offended by the change, it's a bridge too far for them, they are socially, religously conservative.

What I heard from conservative media - FOX and a little talk radio - was outrage towards government interfering with freedom. And the outrage comes on heals of supposed Obamacare assault on religion. Perhaps there is a strong anti-gay marriage feeling mixed into the brew. You would not have had such a backlash if the issue did not involve the government.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby pjbogart » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:07 pm

Huckleby wrote:What I heard from conservative media - FOX and a little talk radio - was outrage towards government interfering with freedom. And the outrage comes on heals of supposed Obamacare assault on religion. Perhaps there is a strong anti-gay marriage feeling mixed into the brew. You would not have had such a backlash if the issue did not involve the government.


Huck, I think you can identify the problem if you just reread your own post. Conservative media attempted to change the subject by focusing on what Rahm Emanuel said and they ran with their typical victimhood schtick, claiming that the government was the problem, oh and looky here! Boogeyman Emanuel! The tension between gay rights advocates and Chick-fil-A has apparently been going on for several years now. Blaming Rahm Emanuel is exactly what FoxNews wants you to do. And Barney Frank, I'm sure. Cause he's gay.

Also, I'd be careful about proclaiming a champion so early in the race. Chick-fil-A can line up customers all the way down the street and it isn't going to make up for even a small portion of their customers refusing to go back. I honestly don't know how the controversy will affect the company in the long run, but judging a company's bottom line by a single day of heavy sales is pretty poor analysis.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby snoqueen » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:23 pm

(Removed -- someone else already said it better.)
Last edited by snoqueen on Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby peripat » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:27 pm

Yeah-everyone I know who announced they were going mentioned defending traditional marriage- no indignant screams about government high handedness. I think that was mostly a smoke & mirrors creation from fox.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:40 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:12 million were murdered in the death camps in the name of socialism...

Socialism? You attempts at right-wing historical revisionism are pathetic. You know little of history or political philosophy to believe so.

The shame is on you.



And you a school teacher by trade. No wonder the students graduate unable to read write, do simple math or know much history or anything else.

Whether or not the German National Socialists were really socialists or not is a conversation we have had and something you seem too incurious to look at.

So suit yourself whether you want to think the National Socialists were really socialists.

Surely even you agree that they called themselves "socialists", don't you? Surely even you agree that they considered their ideology "socialist", don't you? Surely you agree that they murdered 12 million in the name of socialism, don't you?

This is all true regardless of whether or not they were really "socialists"

And that is what I said:

"12 million were murdered in the death camps in the name of socialism"

And you say that is factually wrong? Good grief.

John Henry

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:43 pm

peripat wrote:Yeah-everyone I know who announced they were going mentioned defending traditional marriage


You know social conservatives in the land of chick-fil-a franchises, south of mason-dixon line? My, you are well connected.

To change the subject only slightly, why dear God are there no fried fish franchises anywhere near Madison? Why? Why? Why? I *love* fish 'n' chips. I'd kill for a Long John Silvers. Rape for an Arthur Treacher's. There used to be something out in VErona, but that was long ago.

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:48 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Really couldn't agree more, Henry.

If The Holocaust was committed "in the name of socialism", does that mean the Allies fought "in the name of capitalism".
'Cuz that sure sounds stupid, doncha think, John?


It does sound incredibly stupid, Prof. Perhaps that is why I never said that. You make no sense at all there.


Also worth noting that homosexuals were one of several groups specifically targeted by the Nazis for persecution. What part of "socialism" prescribes such behavior?


I don't know that socialism addresses homosexuality one way or the other. Plenty of socialist regimes, Russia under Stalin, China under Mao, Cuba under Castro, Romania under Ceucescu to name a few have proscribed (I assume "prescribe" was a typo) homosexuality under pain of death.

Or were they not really socialist either?

Again, whether they were or not, they were certainly acting in the name of socialism.

John Henry

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Re: Why did Chick Fil A cross the road

Postby Huckleby » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:49 pm

pjbogart wrote:Also, I'd be careful about proclaiming a champion so early in the race. Chick-fil-A can line up customers all the way down the street and it isn't going to make up for even a small portion of their customers refusing to go back. I honestly don't know how the controversy will affect the company in the long run, but judging a company's bottom line by a single day of heavy sales is pretty poor analysis.

I expect both the pro/con efforts will quickly fizzle out.

Personally, I could care less about punishing a restaraunt chain because their owner is a bible thumper.

The battle that matters is the PR dust-up and how it affects impressions of Republicans and Democrats close to an election. It is inconsequential in the gay rights battle, in my view. And not very important in the election either.


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