Affirmative Action

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Cornbread
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:30 pm

pjbogart wrote:Sorry, I can't resist.

Who are you talking to?
Is this the "ignorant collective", asserting peer pressure on you to wear their mickey mouse hat or they'll kick you out of their Club Ignoramus? :D

I'd not want to be part of any such group grope, but then again, I've always stood on my own two hind feet.

Poverty
Poverty
Poverty
Poverty
Poverty


So then why are all those data so true when blacks from chicago or hispanics from mexico/CA come to madison? They are hardly living in poverty and the whole town bends over backwards to them, giving them pretty much anything and everything....and they attend the madison government schools.

And milwaukee is basically a black city ran by blacks and leftist racist whites.....so why is there continual, dysmal third world statistics among blacks residing there?

Asians come here poor, in "poverty". Why are they OVER represented in all the good categories?

Cornbread wrote:Yet you only want to talk about how to get more of them into your UW madison.....

Yes, to break the cycle of poverty[/quote]
So some 18 year old black kid with an 8th grade educational level from milwaukee will succeed at the UW madison? Because you have day care for her 3 children? Or a similar male from milwaukee will now be successful, even though he's never had a job, other than some trustee work in the milwaukee county jail?

why do you think Blacks and Hispanics have high dropout, teen pregnancy and incarceration rates?

Culture. Generally speaking, people are people, so by far the main difference is CULTURE.

You seem to be implying that they are inherently inferior.

I don't know where you're getting this, other than me citing agreed upon statistics. I guess if you choose to infer this from the numbers, that's up to you.

I will, however, clearly state that I do think that leftists are inferior. "Inferior" may be a hard word, but I guess it's the 'marketplace' result of their voluntarily isolation, that leads them to be severely ignorant as to not only how the world works outside of their little sphere, but even having a tiny, accurate awareness of it.

"inferior" may not be a correct word as their condition is voluntary--so I just call them "leftists". :D

I know you don't recognize this, because you're not a leftist, but you're a constant reminder that there's nothing superior about white folks.


Speaking of leftists and their ignorance--how do you know what color I am? Just because 99.99% here are white and 99.99% of you leftists have nothing but leftist friends, of which 99.99% are white, doesn't mean that, well, not everyone is in ya'll clique....in many, different ways.... 8)

Cornbread
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:37 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:And never having an ID is not the issue. It's possession of a current ID, which people lack who no longer have the ability to safely drive a vehicle.


Wow henry, sometimes you talk like a lawyer so sometimes you can come across as smart. Then you talk like a lawyer and post something like that. :roll:

Applying for an original (first time) ID card

When applying for an original ID card you must visit a DMV service center, complete form MV3004 (Wisconsin Identification Card (ID) application) and provide:

Proof of name and date of birth, for example, a certified U.S. birth certificate, valid passport or certificate of naturalization.
Proof of identity (usually a document with a signature or photo).
Proof of Wisconsin residency.
Proof of U.S. citizenship, legal permanent resident status, legal conditional resident status or legal temporary visitor status.
Your social security number.

Note: If you have held a driver license in the past eight years and now wish to apply for an original ID card, you would only be required to provide proof of identity upon application for your ID card.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/dr ... idcard.htm


here's the big one henry....same govt link:

FREE Wisconsin ID cards for voting

If you are a U.S. citizen, will be at least 18 years of age by the next election, and would like a Wisconsin ID card to vote (although it's not currently required), please check the ID for FREE box when completing the MV3004 (Wisconsin Identification Card (ID) application) or when applying online. Otherwise, please pay the required fee. DMV service centers accept cash or checks only.



Henry Vilas wrote:possession of a current ID, which people lack who no longer have the ability to safely drive a vehicle.


So everyone that has a current ID has the ability to safely drive a vehicle? :?: 8)

snoqueen
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:39 pm

Rationally, liberals know that percentage of voting age adults who have never had an ID, in any demographic, assuming they are citizens, can't be more than 0.05%.


I have a different take on this than others who have responded.

In an earlier discussion on this forum with foron Rich Schultz, he and I actually came to agreement on the outlines for a reasonable voter ID program. I'm not going to go back and find it, but you can if you like.

But the whole discussion is a distraction. If anyone was going to steal an election, they'd start with electronic voting machines, lack of paper ballots for to back up the totals, weirdly-aligned touch screen systems, and non-auditable software... or by mass disenfranchisement not picking away at improperly documented individuals one by one. One scrambled up old lady voting in Chetek instead of Ladysmith isn't going to change your results, and everyone knows it. She deserves to vote, though.

Regarding which -- didn't anybody catch this?

http://www.wfmz.com/news/Dems-pounce-on ... ndex.html1

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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby pjbogart » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:29 pm

Huckleby wrote:OK, I will take a stab at answering your questions, same answer to all: Because minorities have become so morally degraded by the corrupting influence of the welfare state.

Am I warm?


I know this is an unfair quotation, given that you were clearly simply playing along with Cornholio's ignorance, but I'd like to respond to this notion anyway, as it is clearly a notion many Republicans take quite seriously.

First off, I take no position as to whether our welfare state has created laziness. It's very possible that it has, but also possible that the effects are dramatically overstated.

If we are to assume that the welfare state has a corrupting influence on people's motivation, the knee-jerk reaction is that welfare simply pays too much. But people on welfare don't possess any significant disposable income, so if welfare payments are a type of baseline, perhaps the problem isn't the temptation of not working so much as the failure to create greater incentives for employment. Our failure to raise the minimum wage as the cost of living rises is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

One of our problems is that we consider a ceiling on earning to be offensive but we consider a floor to make perfect sense. Essentially we mostly agree that there should be a minimum wage, but the exploitation of workers for astronomical profits knows no limits. This attitude has led to the wealth concentration that's tearing our economy apart, and the mere suggestion that redistribution is an appropriate remedy is met with jeers and derision. Redistribution is fundamentally unfair, under our current mindset, because demanding that an employer pay more to his workers limits his potential profits. Yet paying a wage that isn't enough to survive on is morally acceptable.

Of course, the argument against raising the minimum wage always couches itself in inflation, the notion that if McDonald's and Wal-Mart need to pay their employees more, those added costs will simply be passed on to consumers. But if I want to buy a burger and fries, why shouldn't I pay enough for a McDonald's employee to survive? Isn't that my obligation? I'd expect the same of him.

What does that have to do with the welfare state? Well, if you can collect $1200/month sitting on your ass or $1256/month working your ass off, a reasonable number of people are going to choose to sit on their ass. If, however, minimum wage earned you $2000/month, a higher number of people would choose working. That would be a minimum wage of $11.54/hour. And to boot, if everyone were earning at least $11.54/hour, people would have more money to spend and the overall economy would improve.

But wait! If McDonald's were paying everyone $11.54/hour, wouldn't my burger and fries cost more? Yeah, but the bigger slice would come from the owner because in order to remain competitive he'd have to settle for $300,000/year profits instead of $500,000. And that's wealth redistribution. And it's not a bad thing.

Stu Levitan
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Stu Levitan » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:10 am

Cornbread wrote:So then why are all those data so true when blacks from chicago or hispanics from mexico/CA come to madison? They are hardly living in poverty and the whole town bends over backwards to them, giving them pretty much anything and everything....and they attend the madison government schools.

And milwaukee is basically a black city ran by blacks and leftist racist whites.....so why is there continual, dysmal third world statistics among blacks residing there?

Asians come here poor, in "poverty". Why are they OVER represented in all the good categories?

So some 18 year old black kid with an 8th grade educational level from milwaukee will succeed at the UW madison? Because you have day care for her 3 children? Or a similar male from milwaukee will now be successful, even though he's never had a job, other than some trustee work in the milwaukee county jail?



We get it. You don't like black people or brown people, but you're cool with yellow people.

You should go listen to some Sly and the Family Stone.

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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Stella_Guru » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:08 pm

Bludgeon wrote:People will have a lot of opinions soon enough when the Supreme Court takes the issue up,

Yes, and Robert's rejection of the Obama Administration's assertions under the Commerce Clause has paved the way for upcoming Conservative challenges to established civil rights legislation. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed by Congress based on the Commerce Clause.

Cornbread
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Cornbread » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:46 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:We get it. You don't like black people or brown people, but you're cool with yellow people.

Holy Shit! I'm in serious trouble then....

You should go listen to some Sly and the Family Stone.

Too old and straight. The commodores, earth wind and fire, etc. were all Jokers Wild fare. Later, that bar at park and regent did a lot of houdini, grand master flash, etc. that was pretty cool. Merlyns was more three guys in drag beating on a garbage canned adorned drum. Sly was reserved for The Family and their 8 tracks.....all we need is a guuu-tar.....

Cornbread
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Cornbread » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:52 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:Yes, and Robert's rejection of the Obama Administration's assertions under the Commerce Clause has paved the way for upcoming...


It would be interesting to see if there were (justifiably) a scaling back of congress' use of the (interstate) commerce clause. But here it didn't (and doesn't) apply as the federal government is forcing individuals INTO commerce, forcing people to purchase something.

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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:28 am

Forcing people who can afford it to be responsible for themselves instead of using other people's money to take care of them.

peripat
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby peripat » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:37 am

But their contention is that only the poor should have to take responsibility and pay for everything...the rich, being obviously righteous and thus elevated beyond the normal place of humankind, should not be required to pay for anything.

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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:04 am

Cornbread wrote: But here it didn't (and doesn't) apply as the federal government is forcing individuals INTO commerce, forcing people to purchase something.

Putting aside the constitutional questions for a second, do you really think a requirement to buy health insurance is more intrusive than a requirement to buy auto insurance?

I get the rhetorical argument that it is theoretically possible to live without a car, but as a practical reality, car ownership is a necessity for the majority of Americans.

Requiring liability auto insurance protects society from damage an individual might inflict. Same deal with required health insurance, it prevents individuals from foisting costs on others.

snoqueen
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby snoqueen » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:15 am

You can choose not to buy car insurance quite legally if you decide not to own a car.

I'm not sure how you'd make a choice never to have any healthcare issues, or promise never to use health care. Maybe there could be some way to do this, but how would it work?

Meade
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Meade » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:31 am

Christian Science

(1) Exemption
Subject to paragraph (2), any individual who is (A) a duly
ordained, commissioned, or licensed minister of a church or a
member of a religious order (other than a member of a religious
order who has taken a vow of poverty as a member of such order)
or (B) a Christian Science practitioner, upon filing an
application (in such form and manner, and with such official, as
may be prescribed by regulations made under this chapter)
together with a statement that either he is conscientiously
opposed to, or because of religious principles he is opposed to,
the acceptance (with respect to services performed by him as such
minister, member, or practitioner) of any public insurance which
makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or
retirement or makes payments toward the cost of, or provides
services for, medical care (including the benefits of any
insurance system established by the Social Security Act) and, in
the case of an individual described in subparagraph (A), that he
has informed the ordaining, commissioning, or licensing body of
the church or order that he is opposed to such insurance, shall
receive an exemption from the tax imposed by this chapter with
respect to services performed by him as such minister, member, or
practitioner. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, an
exemption may not be granted to an individual under this
subsection if he had filed an effective waiver certificate under
this section as it was in effect before its amendment in 1967.
http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Sec._1402._Definitions

Detritus
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Detritus » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:43 am

Meade wrote:Christian Science

The Christian Scientists I know have rather narrower definitions of "health care" than one might think. They go to the dentist routinely, for example, try to eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly. Their counseling against medical intervention (it's not a prohibition--each CS member has to make their own decisions) specifically concerns illness, not wellness. They are supposed to regard illness as something coming from God, and therefore something that only God can remove; but it is up to each member to decide where to draw the line between illness and wellness.

Meade
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Re: Affirmative Action

Postby Meade » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:54 am

Detritus wrote:
Meade wrote:Christian Science

The Christian Scientists I know have rather narrower definitions of "health care" than one might think.

Hey, maybe Stu Levitan would like to invite on to his radio show the Christian Scientists you know.


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