Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

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green union terrace chair
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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:
Cornbread wrote:I guess then because of dumb movies, zerobama claimed executive privileged after his racist pig holder kept getting caught in lies to congress.

Aside from that, "racist pig holder" is the name of my next punk band, so hands off, jerk.

Sounds like a euphemism for an LAPD squad car.

Dangerousman
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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:14 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: an operation conducted without the knowledge of the Mexican government. Who's feeling the sting from this "sting operation" now?


Ya, and you remember that little sting operation to kill Bin Laden without the knowledge of Pakistan. Was that alright in your book? Had it gone wrong everyone would have been up in arms how it was done so secretly.

How the fuck can you have a sting operation without it being a secret. When they go right everyone is trying to get in on the action. When they go wrong, fingers are pointing everywhere and the Rich "tool" Shultzes of this world jiz their pants.


Past "stings" had been conducted with the knowledge and cooperation of the Mexican government. Why not this one?

While there's a degree of corruption within certain levels of the Mexican government, particularly at local levels, in Pakistan there were plenty of indications that the Bin Laden raid would have been entirely compromised due to people being supportive of Bin Laden throughout Pakistan's military and intelligence apparatus. One can hardly compare going after the person who was considered the single greatest individual threat to Americans and national security with an attempt to round up a handful of people smuggling guns across the Mexican border-- and issue that affects Mexico and Mexican citizens far more than it affects the United States or US Citizens. Some people are of the opinion that Fast and Furious was just to have an excuse to introduce stricter gun control laws in the US. If so, then it really used the Mexicans without regard to their welfare.

Nobody died from Fast and Furious?

From Wiki: "In June 2011, Carlos Canino, an ATF agent at the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City, testified before Congress that Fast and Furious guns showed up at nearly 200 crime scenes. Reflecting on the operation, Attorney General Eric Holder said that the United States government is "...losing the battle to stop the flow of illegal guns to Mexico," and that the carnage linked to Operation Fast and Furious is most likely to continue for years, as more guns appear at Mexican crime scenes."

and

"Attorney General of Mexico Marisela Morales, well-liked by US law enforcement, said, "At no time did we know or were we made aware that there might have been arms trafficking permitted. In no way would we have allowed it, because it is an attack on the safety of Mexicans." In addition, she expressed that allowing weapons to "walk" would represent a "betrayal" of Mexico.

Chihuahua state prosecutor Patricia Gonzalez, who had worked closely with the US for years, said, "The basic ineptitude of these officials [who ordered the Fast and Furious operation] caused the death of my brother and surely thousands more victims." Her brother, Mario, had been kidnapped, tortured and killed by cartel hit men in fall 2010. It was later revealed that his killers owned AK-pattern rifles traced to Fast and Furious."


So the Mexican's consider it a "betrayal." Were the Pakistani's betrayed?

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:42 pm

Dangerousman wrote: Some people are of the opinion that Fast and Furious was just to have an excuse to introduce stricter gun control laws in the US.


Huh? Please point me to these opinions. I guess in the gun circles anything Obama does somehow restricts gun rights.

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby pjbogart » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:44 pm

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby david cohen » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:02 pm

If I had a buck for every American life lost from an American manufactured firearm....

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Detritus » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:39 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: Some people are of the opinion that Fast and Furious was just to have an excuse to introduce stricter gun control laws in the US.


Huh? Please point me to these opinions. I guess in the gun circles anything Obama does somehow restricts gun rights.

Rachel Maddow had a piece on this particular twist last Wednesday. Here's a summary with a link to the video.

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Cornbread » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:44 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:C'mon. The LSM is having trouble blaming this one on Bush, so there's nothing to see here. Can't we move on? We have so much work to do "for the children, women and seniors".

:D Good one. :D

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Cornbread » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:55 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:If stupidity and shitty syntax were superpowers, you'd have just conquered the universe in a single sentence.

Kewl!!! If a leftist thinks I'm stupid (tho "uneducated" is what ya drones usually dribble) and they typed the word "syntax" relative to me, it's a double win for me. :D Heck, I don't even know what "syntax" is. Are you an engrish major or just sticking to womens studies? I'd do the womens thing or gay studies, then sue some catholic university because they don't give you contraception when you're a grad student there. Looks like there's serious money and political power in that.

Aside from that, "racist pig holder" is the name of my next punk band, so hands off, jerk.

Shall I make a joke out of your last three words? :D
Punk is still around? I thought that died off 30 years ago.
Is Merlyn's still open? "Two shots for a dollar". :lol:
You kids amuse me. OK, you may not be a kid, you may be an old leftist that never quite progressed into adulthood......

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Cornbread » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:58 pm

green union terrace chair wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:
Cornbread wrote:zerobama...his racist pig holder kept getting caught in lies to congress.

Aside from that, "racist pig holder" is the name of my next punk band, so hands off, jerk.

Sounds like a euphemism for an LAPD squad car.

:lol: Now that's funny. :lol:

Can madison pigs be racist? Or is it impossible for dykes to be so? ;)

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:10 pm

Detritus wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: Some people are of the opinion that Fast and Furious was just to have an excuse to introduce stricter gun control laws in the US.


Huh? Please point me to these opinions. I guess in the gun circles anything Obama does somehow restricts gun rights.

Rachel Maddow had a piece on this particular twist last Wednesday. Here's a summary with a link to the video.


Oh that was just a precious video with Rachel trying to pretend that the entire "Fast and Furious Scandal" was something cooked up by conservatives and only plays on Fox News. That's probably news to CBS News investigative reporter Sharyl Attkisson whose investigative reporting on Fast and Furious received the "National Edward R. Murrow Award for Excellence in Video Investigative Reporting." It's sad how she thinks if she smiles and laughs everyone will be convinced it's just some silly tin-foil conspiracy. If it was a tinfoil hat made-up conspiracy theory, then why the "executive privilege?" Hell, lay the whole thing open and let the conspiracy theorists take their lumps.

She doesn't explain why the Obama Administration is trying to impose a requirement on gun dealers in the states that border Mexico with to report multiple rifle sales contrary too federal law. Too bad the gun laws of the country are written by Congress, and not by King Obama! boo hoo hoo

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:18 pm

pjbogart wrote:Guns don't kill people. People kill people.



Well said.

The violence didn't happen because there are 1,340,430 guns in mexico instead of 1,301,289

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:55 am

BTW, for you people who remember the 80's, it will be interesting to see how this Fast & Furious situation will be compared to the Iran-Contra arms scandal.

I think this sting operation is small potatoes, but it has to play out.

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Cornbread » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:13 pm

Dangerousman wrote:While there's a degree of corruption within certain levels of the Mexican government, particularly at local levels...

Just a correction--there's what's called "institutional corruption" in the mexican government, meaning there is corruption at every single level in the their government. The last vestige of anything closely resembling a clean sector was the lower level of their army, but that died off about 10 years ago.

Some people are of the opinion that Fast and Furious was just to have an excuse to introduce stricter gun control laws in the US.

If it was just a handful of people smuggling guns across the border, then why was it changed to let multiple law abiding gun stores across the nation sell 'assault weapons' to people with the ATF "OK" and not have it kept in the original operation in AZ?

If so, then it really used the Mexicans without regard to their welfare.

:D

So the Mexican's consider it a "betrayal."

The mexicans are treated like dirty dirt by their government, so any 'outrage' by them is little more than showtime. The cesspool of mexico depends upon being a victim and their people being victims in order for them to continue getting out government cash and letting their poor come into our country and suck hundreds of millions of dollars out of it and send it back into their own country.

Mexico needs another revolution. I say put up a fence, arm them all and let them clean their own house.

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:04 pm

Huckleby wrote:BTW, for you people who remember the 80's, it will be interesting to see how this Fast & Furious situation will be compared to the Iran-Contra arms scandal.

I think this sting operation is small potatoes, but it has to play out.


The scope may be smaller, but Iran-Contra didn't come to light until midway through Reagan's second term (1986), so had it no impact on Reagan's re-election. There was some attempt to tie the scandal to Bush Sr, during the the '88 election, but those did not go very fa;r either because of timing (by 88 the scandal was old news, and Ollie North was getting all of the attention) or because the Democratic presidential candidate that year was about as exciting as a paint drying competition so Bush Sr could have hand delivered arms to Iran and still have been a better candidate.

This being an election year, the scandal could have more effect, but it's still a rather minor issue comparatively, and Holder seems to be taking all the fire. Unless something comes out directly tying the issue to Obama, I can't imagine he's going to be heavily hurt by it.

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Re: Fast and Furious: Nobody Died At the Watergate

Postby DCB » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:55 pm

Huckleby wrote:BTW, for you people who remember the 80's,


In all, Reagan said ``I don`t recall`` or ``I can`t remember`` 88 times in the eight hours of testimony taken Feb. 16-17 in Los Angeles.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990 ... ony-recall

Nobody remembers the 80s.


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