Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

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Huckleby
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Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:38 pm


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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby green union terrace chair » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:15 am

"And I'd just remind conservative commentators that, for years, what we have heard is, the biggest problem on the bench was judicial activism, or a lack of judicial restraint, that an unelected group of people would somehow overturn a duly constituted and passed law," Obama said.

So Obama agrees with these conservative commentators? Stupid argument.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:39 am

I've never seen Obama so confused, confusing and politically inept.

WTF, does the Constitutional Law Professor not accept that it is the Supreme Court's perogative to review laws? Marbury v. Madison, I learned in school.

And why in HELL does Obama challenge Chief Justice Roberts to a dick-swinging contest? Roberts already hates Obama for his public scolding during state of the union address. There was some chance Roberts might join Kennedy if Kennedy upholds.

Politically - Obama looks like a damn whiner. There is a way to handle this, not in challenging manner, but with a somber, regretful tone - AFTER a decision is rendered.

Fuck. This is bad. I suppose this too shall pass.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby snoqueen » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:39 am

I don't agree with you at all. Have you read the transcripts of the deliberations? The conservative justices were sitting there talking about what congress ought to pass, and whether they had the votes to do this or that. I suppose they talk about it all the time in chambers, but when they're in session they really ought to stick to doing their constitutional job. Making legislation is not the judicial branch's task at all, it's the legislative. Finally Ginsburg and Sotomayor politely called them on it.

I agree with Obama here, as do a lot of other Supreme Court observers.

It's doubly ironic given the amount of hot air the conservatives have produced over "judicial activism" and "legislating from the bench" in the past, and one more example of the mentality that brought us "when the president does it, that means it is not illegal." While this isn't illegal, it's extra-legal for sure.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:00 am

snoqueen wrote: I agree with Obama here, as do a lot of other Supreme Court observers.

The issue here has NOTHING to do with whether I agree with the substance of what Obama is saying.

Yes, the Supreme Court is behaving in a disgraceful manner. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS SMART FOR A PRESIDENT TO CHALLENGE THEM IN THE POLITICAL ARENA, IRONICALLY ACCUSE THEM OF PLAYING POLITICS, AND TRY TO DISGRACE THEM - BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN F-ING RENDERED A DECISION!

Sorry for shouting, I am pissed at the situation.

snoqueen wrote:It's doubly ironic given the amount of hot air the conservatives have produced over "judicial activism" and "legislating from the bench" in the past
Yes, the president sounds like a 1970s right-wing yahoo. Lovely. That'll end well.

Take a step back. Like it or not, the Supreme Court has the power to decide what is constitutional. Obama needs to walk a fine line. Attack the political bias of a decision, as you suggest, but do not challenge the unassailable propreity of their rendering a decision, and for God's sake do not challenge their integrity before they have even announced their ruling. Christ. These are human beings, and supremely arrogant ones at that.

Shit. I am ALL FOR a campaign attacking the likely wrong-headed politicized outcome of the court. But you do it with finesse, and Obama has really bungled the job.

On the upside, maybe about 1% of the country cares as much about this as I do. The solution may be a sedative.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:05 am

Obama thinks he's FDR.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby green union terrace chair » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:09 am

Huckleby wrote:Shit. I am ALL FOR a campaign attacking the likely wrong-headed politicized outcome of the court. But you do it with finesse, and Obama has really bungled the job.

On the upside, maybe about 1% of the country cares as much about this as I do. The solution may be a sedative.

Obama is being dopey by criticizing the Supreme Court as "unelected." He sounds like an uninformed talk radio caller.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby green union terrace chair » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:10 am

Ned Flanders wrote:Obama thinks he's FDR.

It would be pretty funny if he tried the same workaround.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby kurt_w » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:24 am

If you forget about the consequences, and just consider the Republicans' claims that the mandate is "unconstitutional", it's kind of entertaining.

Candidate Barack Obama, 2008: We need to pursue health care reform, but I'd rather do it without an individual mandate.

The Republicans: Don't give us that socialized medicine stuff. We'll only accept a market-based system of private insurance, with an individual mandate.

President Obama, 2009: Okay, for the sake of compromise I'm willing to accept your demands for a market-based system of private insurance, with an individual mandate.

Republicans, 2010-2012: Joke's on you! We've changed our mind, and it's unconstitutional anyway! Bwahahahaha.

Ezra Klein nicely captures this dynamic here:

REVEALED: The Democrats’ devious plan to compromise with the Republicans

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby FJD » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:27 am

green union terrace chair wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Obama thinks he's FDR.

It would be pretty funny if he tried the same workaround.



"tried" being the key word there. FDR had the benefit of a public that supported his plan enough to give him 2/3 control of congress (and a filibusterer proof senate). When he threatened to stack the Supreme Court, he could actually back it up.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby pjbogart » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:44 am

I think Obama was right to point out that the Supreme Court is engaging in judicial activism. By all accounts the conservative faction's conversations have sounded more like something coming from legislators than judges. Obama uses the term "unelected" because that's the conservative catchphrase for criticizing judicial activism. Unelected judges are overturning the will of the people.

And Huck, reversing a Supreme Court decision is no small task. Obama speaking out before the decision is rendered seems like a calculated gamble. He's specifically reaching out to Roberts and Kennedy and encouraging them to show respect for the separation of powers. I understand that there's some irony in the executive branch coercing the judicial branch to accept what the legislative branch has done, but ultimately it's their decision and they know it.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:52 am

pjbogart wrote: He's specifically reaching out to Roberts and Kennedy and encouraging them to show respect for the separation of powers.

You catch more flies with honey than vinigar. There will be plenty of opportunity to dump vinigar on their heads later on.

I get your/Obama's logic. However, I do not expect arrogant supreme court justices react favorably to public scoldings that question their integrity.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby snoqueen » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:54 am

So you think Obama should stay all tasteful and polite and pretend he doesn't notice what the SC conservatives are doing? In today's political climate, where anyone says whatever he feels like saying?

The SC cons were in session and supposedly questioning the administration's lawyer on the points of his argument, and they rather uncharacteristically segued off into speculation about what the legislative branch could get the votes for, and what they might do next (require everyone to buy broccoli is the most quotable part). That's quite clearly not the way the USSC is generally supposed to operate, which is to adjudicate cases on their own merits and on available precedent, to set standards for various future decisions, and settle conflicts among lower court rulings. They don't write laws, they don't tell the legislature what to write. While they should be mindful of how their judgments will be construed, the judges don't control their construction by the current sitting legislature.

I don't have any problem with Obama calling this what it was. Is he supposed to tell the SC what to do? Of course not, no more than they tell him what to do. Is he allowed to discuss what they already did? Sure. He's a constitutional scholar by trade, we hired him to use his training, and yes, he's got standing to comment on the deliberations of the court.

Will it affect the final ruling? Who knows. I don't think Obama is in the dark about the fact Roberts is very concerned that his court not go down in history as a "rogue court," though. I think Obama is gambling that Roberts will hold that concern over everyday politics, but yes, it's a gamble.

-- pj's comment came in just as I was posting it, and I see he takes the same view I do.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:05 am

snoqueen wrote:So you think Obama should stay all tasteful and polite and pretend he doesn't notice what the SC conservatives are doing?.

yes to tasteful and polite. no to not noticing.
He needs to proceed with delicacy. At most express his full trust and confidence that the Supreme Court will indeed put politics aside. In other words, slyly insinuate that they just might be skunks.

Playing the "unelected officials" overturning "duly passed laws" card is ignorant and beneath Obama. The supremes are of course uniquely empowered to decide whether or not a law is duly passed or not.

snoqueen wrote: and what they might do next (require everyone to buy broccoli is the most quotable part). That's quite clearly not the way the USSC is generally supposed to operate,

Right, I agree with most of the substance of what Obama is saying.
Have you read columns by Pearsltein & Dionne at Washington Post, plus Krugman at NY Times? Those guys nailed it. We have pundits and lesser politicans to make the case that the Supreme Court is out of control. The president should wait in dignified manner for the result.

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Re: Obama publicly calls-out Supreme Court

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:14 am

Ned Flanders wrote:Obama thinks he's FDR.

While FDR also called out the Supreme Court, Obama isn't trying to court pack.

And Obama isn't calling for John Roberts impeachment, like the conservatives did for Earl Warren.


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