Dave on Ron Paul

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
ArturoBandini
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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:12 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Artie, the overwhelming majority of black Americans vote for liberal candidates, not libertarian ones. Now women are abandoning the GOP and have never been much of a presence in the libertarian movement.
What's your point? The overwhelming majority of any race or demographic votes for candidates that aren't libertarian ones.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:14 am

rrnate wrote:Hey man, small government, except for abortions. Let's outlaw those.
This is a pretty common misconception. There is as much disagreement in the libertarian community on abortion as there is among people in general. Ron Paul is strongly criticized by many in the libertarian community for his views on abortion. His views usually boil down to states' rights on this issue anyway, not a blanket ban on abortion.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:18 am

ArturoBandini wrote:The overwhelming majority of any race or demographic votes for candidates that aren't libertarian ones.

As a hard core libertarian, you don't see a problem with that?

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby kurt_w » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:20 am

rrnate wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Now women are abandoning the GOP and have never been much of a presence in the libertarian movement.


Hey man, small government, except for abortions. Let's outlaw those.


As far as I can tell, that's actually Ron Paul's position. (He's radically anti-abortion, and calls it "the most important issue of our age").

The mainstream GOP position seems to be small government, except for abortions and drugs and marriage and defense spending and corporate welfare and ... er, basically, whatever else they want to have government meddling in. Then, big government is good.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:25 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote:The overwhelming majority of any race or demographic votes for candidates that aren't libertarian ones.

As a hard core libertarian, you don't see a problem with that?

Are you asking, do I have a problem with being in a political minority? No, I do not. As long as everyone keeps their hands to themselves, it's OK that other people have opinions that are different from mine.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby Crockett » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:28 am

kurt_w wrote:The mainstream GOP position seems to be small government, except for abortions and drugs and marriage and defense spending and corporate welfare and ... er, basically, whatever else they want to have government meddling in. Then, big government is good.


Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!

For the record, Ron Paul is not a mainstream Republican.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:30 am

kurt_w wrote:As far as I can tell, that's actually Ron Paul's position. (He's radically anti-abortion, and calls it "the most important issue of our age").
You are inferring a lot from that little quote, which is preceded by this:
via Skype to pro-life activists convening in Jacksonville
Paul is still a politician.

A better citation for your position would be this one . Again, it takes some inference to conclude that this is a direct ban on abortion, but it's getting closer. The machinery of this act would basically remove the authority of the Federal Government on "personhood" issues:
Section 2(b)(2) of the Sanctity of Life Act further would have recognized that each state has authority to protect the lives of unborn children residing in the jurisdiction of that state.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby kurt_w » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:34 am

It's true that Ron Paul hasn't favored a Federal ban on abortion. But he is personally anti-abortion and supports bans at the state level.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby wack wack » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:37 am

ArturoBandini wrote:Also note that there are more Libertarians in both of the lowest income brackets than there are Liberals.


Libertarians are leading the race to the bottom.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:40 am

kurt_w wrote:It's true that Ron Paul hasn't favored a Federal ban on abortion. But he is personally anti-abortion and supports bans at the state level.
Right, regulating abortion at a more local level, not federal - small government, which is the point I was addressing made by rrnate. Looks like everything is in order here.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:42 am

ArturoBandini wrote:
kurt_w wrote:It's true that Ron Paul hasn't favored a Federal ban on abortion. But he is personally anti-abortion and supports bans at the state level.
Right, regulating abortion at a more local level, not federal - small government, which is the point I was addressing made by rrnate. Looks like everything is in order here.

Paul has the same problem with civil rights legislation.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:42 am

wack wack wrote:Libertarians are leading the race to the bottom.

You would have to show a trend in income bracket political demographics over time to make such a claim.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:45 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Paul has the same problem with civil rights legislation.
And?

In an unbiased assessment, you would call it a "position" not a problem.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby kurt_w » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:54 am

ArturoBandini wrote:
kurt_w wrote:It's true that Ron Paul hasn't favored a Federal ban on abortion. But he is personally anti-abortion and supports bans at the state level.
Right, regulating abortion at a more local level, not federal - small government, which is the point I was addressing made by rrnate. Looks like everything is in order here.


Only if you don't count regulation by state governments as "big government".

It's not that Ron Paul doesn't have an opinion about abortion, and would prefer to see it legal in some states and banned in others. Ron Paul thinks abortion is comparable to slavery or the Nazi Holocaust:

Ron Paul wrote:Abortion on demand is the ultimate State tyranny; the State simply declares that certain classes of human beings are not persons, and therefore not entitled to the protection of the law. The State protects the “right” of some people to kill others, just as the courts protected the “property rights” of slave masters in their slaves. Moreover, by this method the State achieves a goal common to all totalitarian regimes: it sets us against each other, so that our energies are spent in the struggle between State-created classes, rather than in freeing all individuals from the State. Unlike Nazi Germany, which forcibly sent millions to the gas chambers (as well as forcing abortion and sterilization upon many more), the new regime has enlisted the assistance of millions of people to act as its agents in carrying out a program of mass murder.


Ron Paul would presumably like to see abortion banned in all 50 states; he just has an ideology that prefers to see it done at the state level rather than the federal level. That's not "small government", it's just shifting the "bigness" from one unit of government to another.

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Re: Dave on Ron Paul

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:59 am

ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Paul has the same problem with civil rights legislation.
And?

In an unbiased assessment, you would call it a "position" not a problem.

It certainly would be a problem for black Americans if Southern states could reinstitute Jim Crow.


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