Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

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Henry Vilas
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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:40 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote: Sure, we might be swapping a one problem for another problem, but the new problem would be smaller than the old one. I'm OK with that.

I'm curious as to why you're so confident about that.

I guess the lessons from alcohol prohibition are lost on you.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby jman111 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:41 pm

I still take issue with blaming MJ use for dependence upon gov't "hammocks". In my experience, its use is generally symptomatic of other underlying issues. It's just easy to blame the pot.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote: Sure, we might be swapping a one problem for another problem, but the new problem would be smaller than the old one. I'm OK with that.

I'm curious as to why you're so confident about that.

I guess the lessons from alcohol prohibition are lost on you.

Oh Hank, tell us about your life during prohibition :lol:

The alcohol train left the station long ago. We're not going back, which isn't to say that they're aren't a lot of alcoholics who cause a lot of damage to themselves, their families and society. I'm not for opening up another group of abusers that will cause similar problems.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:58 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote: Sure, we might be swapping a one problem for another problem, but the new problem would be smaller than the old one. I'm OK with that.

I'm curious as to why you're so confident about that.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/64

There are literally millions of people in prison right now, many of whom are convicted on drug crimes. In the link above, it states that 242,000 of those people are in prison with a drug offense being their most serious offense. Many others committed crimes that they wouldn't have otherwise committed had drugs been legal. Like Henry hinted, we can look to the prohibition of alcohol as an example of how prohibiting a substance causes other crimes to spill out as a result. Virtually all of the gang violence during Prohibition was fueled, well, by prohibition. Thousands of innocent people are dead in Mexico, the United States, and elsewhere because the business of drug dealing must be done in an extralegal manner.

It's safe to say that the problems caused by drug prohibition are massive - I'd venture to say that 1 in 100 Americans have been severely negatively affected by their run-ins with drug prohibition, and if those people are parents, the damage toll only grows. Your potential welfare dependence problem would need to be larger than that in order for the tradeoff not to be worthwhile.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:23 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:I'm not for opening up another group of abusers that will cause similar problems.


These abusers already exist. All this would really do is take away the criminal punishment for the weed smoking which is a good thing and would probably save us more in prison costs then it would in drug rehab(which mind you already exists) I don't see how legalizing it is going to get people flocking to the weed store who have never used before.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby wack wack » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:04 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:The alcohol train left the station long ago. We're not going back, which isn't to say that they're aren't a lot of alcoholics who cause a lot of damage to themselves, their families and society. I'm not for opening up another group of abusers that will cause similar problems.


If you think marijuana abusers create the same kind and scope of problems as alcohol abusers, your experience and knowledge of one or the other (or both) is severely lacking.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:20 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote: Sure, we might be swapping a one problem for another problem, but the new problem would be smaller than the old one. I'm OK with that.

I'm curious as to why you're so confident about that.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/64

There are literally millions of people in prison right now, many of whom are convicted on drug crimes. In the link above, it states that 242,000 of those people are in prison with a drug offense being their most serious offense. Many others committed crimes that they wouldn't have otherwise committed had drugs been legal. Like Henry hinted, we can look to the prohibition of alcohol as an example of how prohibiting a substance causes other crimes to spill out as a result. Virtually all of the gang violence during Prohibition was fueled, well, by prohibition. Thousands of innocent people are dead in Mexico, the United States, and elsewhere because the business of drug dealing must be done in an extralegal manner.

It's safe to say that the problems caused by drug prohibition are massive - I'd venture to say that 1 in 100 Americans have been severely negatively affected by their run-ins with drug prohibition, and if those people are parents, the damage toll only grows. Your potential welfare dependence problem would need to be larger than that in order for the tradeoff not to be worthwhile.

Thanks Arturo. Very interesting. Since the victim-government complex seems to grow yearly, I'm wary of an sort of change that might incorporate yet another group. But you make good points.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:33 pm

Ned, I just saw this linked - a recent Intelligence Squared debate debating the merits of the War on Drugs. I haven't watched it yet, so I can't offer any commentary other than that I expect it to be fairly informative.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:34 pm

Alcohol and other drugs can have deleterious effects, but treating them as a health/medical problem is much more efficacious than treating it as a legal problem.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby eriedasch » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm

ilikebeans wrote:There are no issues more important to this country than legalizing marijuana. Seriously?

I choose not to look at it so much as an issue all by itself, but one that impacts and has the potential to improve many of our current problems associated with job creation, crime, taxes, incarceration, health care, fuel, textiles, food, international relations, etc.

Roll your eyes all you want, but if a politician cannot get the marijuana, or medical marijuana issue correct, it reveals a lot about how they will view just about any other issue. A great litmus test, especially when every poll done within the last 5 years shows an overwhelming public support for it.

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Re: Snoop Dogg endorses Ron Paul

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:05 pm

I bought an old PC from Dig-n-Save about 6 or 7 years ago and threw it in storage. When I finally dug it out, I was surprised to see "Chavala" in black marker on the back that I didn't notice when I bought it. So I fired it up, and lo and behold about 85% of this PC was filled with donor lists for democrats: Attorneys, doctors and what not. It had invitations to donor events, talking points for specific donors, etc. The donor lists were extensive and detailed.

There was a picture of John Guard in it and someone had drawn Devil's horns and a tail on him with really bad poetry about him. It also had the cell phone numbers of the 2004 Democratic primary presidential candidates including John Kerry, Alan Keys, etc.

Perhaps the most unusual item was a letter to Snoop Dogg "empathizing" with his battle with the music industry.

I should've kept it stored away, but I gave it to my nephew and it's long gone-recycled.


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