What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
jman111
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby jman111 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:47 pm

misogyny
According to feminist theory, misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.


Is it really a stretch, Huck?

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:47 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:If you can't see the misogyny in a "joke" that says Obama's mother fucks a dog, then you are either terminally obtuse or a disingenuous fool. The choice is yours.


Well, I think we are getting somewhere here.

You are saying the connection is obvious, self-evident. Maybe that's why no explanation has been made. OK, I can guess at the explanation because it is on the surface:
Lets see.... mother is a woman. Mother does something degrading. Therefore, all women are degraded.

To me that is absurd. Half or more of the dirty jokes in the world are misoginistic.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:54 pm

jman111 wrote:misogyny
According to feminist theory, misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.


Is it really a stretch, Huck?


If one accepts that very broad definition of misogyny, then yes, certainly that joke is misogyny.

oh my, wait a sec, that is not a definition misogyny, it is how misogyny is manifested. Good lord. So one doesn't have to see misogyny in action to allege it, you see the warning signs, and can conclude that misogyny lurks within.

I think we have a semantic malfunction here. I need to take a moment to digest this.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Marvell » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:57 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Marvell wrote:Seriously? You know better than the 'mean girls' as to why they said what they said? In regards to the topic of misogyny?

Do you even know what 'patronizing' means?


The "mean girl" remark was made, quite appropriately, in response to catty promises to ostracize me. Now you have connected that remark to a different topic, mysogeny [sic], falsely claiming that I made a patronizing dismissal of somebody's opinion. Nice trick.


Your un-earned self-regard is only exceeded by your utter lack of self-awareness.

That's what offends me - that you're a mush-headed stupe with pretentions of erudition.

Really, you're just a mush-headed stupe. You're the only one who doesn't get this.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby jman111 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:01 pm

Huckleby wrote:So one doesn't have to see misogyny in action to allege it, you see the warning signs, and can conclude that misogyny lurks within.

How would one "see" hate, if not by its manifestations?

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:05 pm

OK, after thinking about it, maybe that definition really isn't so unreasonable.

But I see two problems, one large, one small. "sexual objectification" is so broad. When does a joke about sex become sexual objectification? Honestly, I dare you to come up with that distinction. Then I double dare you to find a blue comedy routine, even by a woman like Sara Sivlerman or Lisa Lampanelli, that does not violate your guidelines.

The smaller problem: what constitutes "women"? Any joke with a female character? In this particular joke, for instance, the butt of the joke, Barack's mom was being targetted precisely because she is Baracks' mom, not because she is a woman.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:06 pm

jman111 wrote:How would one "see" hate, if not by its manifestations?

OK, ya, that is a good point. but as you broaden indicators, meaning of "misogyny" gets dilluted. I see it as a very intense and specific word.

I hate that a word like "racist" or "misogynist" or "genocide" gets genericized by overuse.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:12 pm

Marvell wrote: Your un-earned self-regard is only exceeded by your utter lack of self-awareness.

I see. Use of the word "catty" is now manifestation of misogyny?
The politically correct machinery claims new territory.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby jman111 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:15 pm

Given that I've heard variations of the joke previously (all involving the allusion to canine inclusion in a, ummm, "party"), I'd say that the "butt of the joke" is women, in general. The sexual objectification lies in the implication that a woman would get her freak on with multiple partners of not only the human, but also the canine, variety.

Are you seriously arguing that there can be no misogyny represented here because it would therefore follow that the misogyny of others may be similarly revealed?
"That can't possibly be hate, 'cuz I see others doing the same thing!"

(By the way, they're not my guidelines.)

(edit: typo)
Last edited by jman111 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby pjbogart » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:18 pm

Maybe it would be beneficial to parse the joke and insert the insinuations so that you can better see the offensive content.

A young Barack Obama, who has a mother who is white and a father who is black, asks his mother why her skin is white while his own skin is black? His mother tells him that she was impregnated with him at a wild party that she doesn't remember much about, presumably because she was very intoxicated, but she recalls having sex with a dog and a black man. She explains to Barack that he should be happy that he's black and not a dog.

The "joke" is that having sex with a black man is akin to having sex with an animal. You could also infer that Obama is part animal, given that he's the product of such an unholy union. You could also infer that there's something wrong with being black, based upon the child's question, but that being black is better than being a dog. You could also infer that women who are promiscuous and willing to have sex with animals also have sex with black men.

I know that's a lot of inferences, but it's a pretty loaded "joke."

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:56 pm

jman111 wrote: I'd say that the "butt of the joke" is women, in general. The sexual objectification lies in the implication that a woman would get her freak on with multiple partners of not only the human, but also the canine, variety.


OK. Well, I see the offense you have taken as understandable.

I myself have trouble making the leap that all women are targeted by this particular joke.

I suggest you not tune into Comedy Central Roasts! I don't mean this in any way as a crtiticisms of your sensibilities. I do take umbrage that you would view anybody who accepts such black humor as "misogynist".

I am sorry to see that "misogyny" has been so broadly defined.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:02 pm

pjbogart wrote:Maybe it would be beneficial to parse the joke and insert the insinuations so that you can better see the offensive content.

I do understand why the joke is racist, although I didn't catch it at first.

And now I see why people consider it "misogynistic", but I find that regretable. Wish people would just be satisfied with being offended and not drag-in such an intensely accusatory word. Over time it dillutes and trivializes the word, since most dirty jokes fall under the umbrella.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Bland » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:06 pm

It sure sounds like you're trying to argue intent and context matter, Huck, yet you keep bringing up comedians, as if their intent and context are the same as the judge's in question. You really might want to rethink your analogy, unless you think that comedians and judges serve similar functions in society.

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby pjbogart » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:22 pm

Huckleby wrote:I do understand why the joke is racist, although I didn't catch it at first.

And now I see why people consider it "misogynistic", but I find that regretable. Wish people would just be satisfied with being offended and not drag-in such an intensely accusatory word. Over time it dillutes and trivializes the word, since most dirty jokes fall under the umbrella.


Actually, I tend to agree that the misogynistic angle is perhaps a bit overplayed. Mostly it's just extremely racist. What makes the joke so outrageous is that it was being emailed from a federal judge. This is a person who was considered so exceptionally qualified that he was given life tenure due to his intelligence, acumen and ability to mete out even-handed justice. Would you feel comfortable as an African American DOJ attorney arguing a case before this judge?

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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby jman111 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:24 pm

Huckleby wrote:OK. Well, I see the offense you have taken as understandable.

I myself have trouble making the leap that all women are targeted by this particular joke.

I suggest you not tune into Comedy Central Roasts! I don't mean this in any way as a crtiticisms of your sensibilities. I do take umbrage that you would view anybody who accepts such black humor as "misogynist".

I am sorry to see that "misogyny" has been so broadly defined.

Eeeeasy there, big fella. When did I express offense? When did I label anyone as misogynistic?
You seemed to dismiss the possibility of a legitimate interpretation of misogyny in the joke.
Huckleby wrote:Sorry, but I don't see anything remotely hateful towards women in such a joke.

I offered an explanation of how someone could see mysogyny from the feminist perspective. I'm not sure I make that leap either.
jman111 wrote:(By the way, they're not my guidelines.)

You requested an explanation. I offered one.
Huckleby wrote:But nobody has explained how the narrative of that joke promotes hatred towards women.
Rather than accuse me of dismissing explanations, why don't you quote a past explanation, or better yet, state one yourself.


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