Gas Fantasy land

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
fisticuffs
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Gas Fantasy land

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:44 am

http://news.yahoo.com/gingrich-says-pol ... 56454.html
"all of a sudden we're going to be hit with the same force of wind that hit us in 2008, in the summer, that caused us to go into a recession, all because of the radical environmentalist policies of this president."


So now the recession was caused by the high gas prices, which even though they skyrocketed under Bush are the fault of some radical environmentalist policies under Obama? What policies are those? I thought it was Jimmy Carter who caused the recessions? Fannie and Freddie? I thought it was entitlements? I thought it was the stimulus that caused the recession? How are people dumb enough to buy this shit? One of the 10's of thousands of oil wells the radical environmentalist president of ours continues to allow to operate without hardly any oversight blew the fuck up and flooded the gulf with millions of barrels of oil and the solution is another ten thousand oil rigs? The Keystone pipeline is the biggest special interest scam on the planet and is only going to create jobs for Canadians. But you know solar, wind, that's some huge conspiracy.

End rant.

Stebben84
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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:11 am

What is so sad is that people will believe that Gingrich could actual help to reduce gas prices. We had the most pro-oil president of our time and the prices still went up. Ugh, people are stupid.

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby DCB » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:12 am

Apparently he never grasped the concept of 'supply and demand'.

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:24 am

DCB wrote:Apparently he never grasped the concept of 'supply and demand'.

The role of speculators must be taken into consideration.

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:21 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
DCB wrote:Apparently he never grasped the concept of 'supply and demand'.

The role of speculators must be taken into consideration.
Speculators are part of the supply and demand process.

fisticuffs
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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:28 pm

Speculators are part of the supply and demand process.


Yes they are. A Disastrous part of it. Thanks to the Commodities Futures Modernization Act they don't have to take delivery of the millions of barrels they buy and sell every hour, nor do they have to have the capitol to even pay for it. I seem to remember third grade classes about the Great Depression. This is what caused it.

This is perverted capitalism. I'd think even Arturo could see that.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:33 pm

Gingrich sucks. With that out of the way...
fisticuffs wrote:One of the 10's of thousands of oil wells the radical environmentalist president of ours continues to allow to operate without hardly any oversight blew the fuck up and flooded the gulf with millions of barrels of oil and the solution is another ten thousand oil rigs?
Put that way, you're almost making an argument for offshore drilling. Only 1 in 10,000+ unsupervised wells had a major accident? OK, add some oversight to stop that one accident from happening again, and drill, baby, drill!
The Keystone pipeline is the biggest special interest scam on the planet and is only going to create jobs for Canadians. But you know solar, wind, that's some huge conspiracy.
Can you put solar or wind energy in your gas tank? Maybe in 20 years we'll have the infrastructure to do that (and I hope we get it), but in the meantime our economy still needs a lot of oil. How was the drive from Mt. Horeb this morning?

Regarding jobs for Canadians, ~60% of Canada's imports are from the US. One could make a reasonable argument that economic development in Canada leads indirectly to jobs in the US. The global economy is not a zero-sum game where we must beat someone else in order to avoid losing - we can all win simultaneously.

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby pjbogart » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:34 pm

I think we need to apply anti-trust laws to speculators who use vast financial resources for coercive purposes. Essentially, commodity speculators hold our economy hostage when they restrict supply for personal gain. Furthermore, allowing such behavior simply puts them in better position to be even more coercive as their financial resources grow, eventually grinding our entire economy to a halt as they find the cornering of markets easier to achieve.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:38 pm

fisticuffs wrote:I seem to remember third grade classes about the Great Depression. This is what caused it.
This quote is so full of win. Do you really think that third-grade history lessons are sufficient to explain and understand the Great Depression? There are economic scholars who devote their entire careers to the sorting out the subtle causes and effects during the GD, but fisticuffs remembers something from third grade (this was after making a hand-turkey during the unit on the first Thanksgiving) so he's good on that topic.

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:40 pm

Put that way, you're almost making an argument for offshore drilling. Only 1 in 10,000+ unsupervised wells had a major accident? OK, add some oversight to stop that one accident from happening again, and drill, baby, drill!

???? No I'm saying one blowing up is a huge fucking deal all it's own. One is bad enough. We have something like 30,000 in the gulf.
Can you put solar or wind energy in your gas tank? Maybe in 20 years we'll have the infrastructure to do that (and I hope we get it), but in the meantime our economy still needs a lot of oil.

Nope I can't. I can't put natural gas in my tank either and that's what Keystone XL is supposedly for.
How was the drive from Mt. Horeb this morning?

More fuel efficient than my old drive from Fitchburg. I car pool with my wife 3 days a week as well.
Regarding jobs for Canadians, ~60% of Canada's imports are from the US. One could make a reasonable argument that economic development in Canada leads indirectly to jobs in the US. The global economy is not a zero-sum game where we must beat someone else in order to avoid losing - we can all win simultaneously.

My issue isn't with Canadian jobs benefiting the US in some round about way. Turn on Fox News. The party line is that this creates hundreds of thousands of jobs potentially. That's an outright lie. Told by the very people who will benefit from this giant boondoggle.

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:42 pm

This quote is so full of win.


So you can boil down every single complex issue into the same tired "free market" solution, from drug safety to education to energy policy, but I can't say with great certainty that the practice of buying stock on margin caused the financial collapse in the 30's?

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:44 pm

Artie, do you really believe that unbridled spectulation had nothing to do with the Great Depression? If so, you know nothing about history (whether or not it was taught in third grade).

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:48 pm

fisticuffs wrote: I can't put natural gas in my tank either and that's what Keystone XL is supposedly for.
No, Keystone XL is for crude oil synthesized from tar sands.
fisticuffs wrote:
How was the drive from Mt. Horeb this morning?

More fuel efficient than my old drive from Fitchburg. I car pool with my wife 3 days a week as well.
Actually, that was a low-blow on my part and has nothing to do with the validity of the points we're discussing. I apologize.
My issue isn't with Canadian jobs benefiting the US in some round about way. Turn on Fox News.
From a different perspective, perhaps you should turn off Fox News.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:54 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Artie, do you really believe that unbridled spectulation had nothing to do with the Great Depression? If so, you know nothing about history (whether or not it was taught in third grade).
No. Speculation had something to do with the initial crash. But as with most phenomena that happen at the national or global scale, it is more complicated than that. At the very least, one might ask, "what made all those traders think it was prudent to use leverage to that degree?" (putting yet another layer of causality before the one you've identified as the culprit). And just the fact that there was a stock market crash doesn't mean that the GD logically had to follow. There have been other stock market crashes that were not followed by depressions like the Big One. All I'm saying is that no one should act like this is a simple issue.

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Re: Gas Fantasy land

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:02 pm

ArturoBandini wrote: There have been other stock market crashes that were not followed by depressions like the Big One.

There was no other crashes on that scale. And there were many periodic depressions prior to the Big One. They were called panics, since that is what they brought on.


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