More Immigration Insanity

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Ned Flanders
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Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:33 pm

Tolerator, the left plays the race card when they've lost an argument. It is their last desperate "joker".

What the goof balls here don't understand is that people like you and I could give a flip.

Marvell
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Postby Marvell » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:38 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Tolerator, the left plays the race card when they've lost an argument. It is their last desperate "joker".

What the goof balls here don't understand is that people like you and I could give a flip.


Then why the hell are you here?

Honestly - I don't care if you lie to me; frankly, I expect it. But have some goddamn self-respect and stop lying to yourself.

The fact is, you care very deeply. There are several thousand posts that testify to this.

thebookpolice
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Postby thebookpolice » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:39 pm

Chuck_Schick wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:So, TT? Wanna chime in? Should I inform Foundation that you're ready to reduce him to a fraction of a human, or do you want to?

Oh, man ...

What are ringside seats to that event going for, I wonder?


Not that much, actually. The fight wouldn't last long. Here's an artist's rendering:

Image

(that's TT on the left)

The Tolerator
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Postby The Tolerator » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:47 pm

Is that picture another of your racist slurs TBP?

buckyor
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Postby buckyor » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:47 pm

The Tolerator wrote:
Too easy retard

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

"And" is the operative word here.

If a pregnant brit is in America they are still British citizen and not under the jurisdiction of America. If they deliver here they and their baby are still British citizens and not under the jurisdiction of America. This has been misconstrued so many times, everyone thinks it is law, but it is not.

Chuck, go back to school and learn your ABCs.

Does being smarter than you make me heartless?


Ok, this post actually brought hot coffee out through my nose. Now I have a mess to clean up in my office.

I'm not sure where to begin, or even if it's worth the effort after reading the rest of this thread, which demonstrates one of two things: either The Tonsilator is actually Stephen Colbert, or he is the dumbest person on the face of the earth. And that latter standard is pretty hard, what with GWB, Donald Rumsfeld, Doug Feith, and Bill Pullman in Ruthless People.

I guess 100 years plus of lawyers, judges and constitutional scholars are no match for the brilliant legal mind of The Tonkabator, who once served on a jury, you know. Of course, he hasn't demonstrated that he knows what it means to be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, but hey, there's only so much legal data you can put on the back of a cereal box.

Thanks for the laughs, Thumberator.

The Tolerator
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Postby The Tolerator » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:51 pm

buckyor wrote:
The Tolerator wrote:
Too easy retard

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

"And" is the operative word here.

If a pregnant brit is in America they are still British citizen and not under the jurisdiction of America. If they deliver here they and their baby are still British citizens and not under the jurisdiction of America. This has been misconstrued so many times, everyone thinks it is law, but it is not.

Chuck, go back to school and learn your ABCs.

Does being smarter than you make me heartless?


Ok, this post actually brought hot coffee out through my nose. Now I have a mess to clean up in my office.

I'm not sure where to begin, or even if it's worth the effort after reading the rest of this thread, which demonstrates one of two things: either The Tonsilator is actually Stephen Colbert, or he is the dumbest person on the face of the earth. And that latter standard is pretty hard, what with GWB, Donald Rumsfeld, Doug Feith, and Bill Pullman in Ruthless People.

I guess 100 years plus of lawyers, judges and constitutional scholars are no match for the brilliant legal mind of The Tonkabator, who once served on a jury, you know. Of course, he hasn't demonstrated that he knows what it means to be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, but hey, there's only so much legal data you can put on the back of a cereal box.

Thanks for the laughs, Thumberator.


Re-read, I covered subject to jurisdiction. I didn't site my jury duty as my credentials to comment on the constitution. For that I site my superior thinking and reasoning skills.

Talon Newsman
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Postby Talon Newsman » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:52 pm

buckyor wrote:Of course, he hasn't demonstrated that he knows what it means to be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States...

What do you mean? Until this morning, I had no idea that foreign nationals visiting the United States were not under the jurisdiction of our laws.

That's going to make the Global War on Terror a little more difficult, but we already knew it was hard work. Hard work!

P.S. What's with the swipe at Stephen Colbert? He's one of the most insightful and articulate conservative commentators we have.

It shows how liberal the mainstream news media is, that he can only get a forum on a non-news channel.

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Postby buckyor » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:54 pm

The Tolerator wrote:
Re-read, I covered subject to jurisdiction. I didn't site my jury duty as my credentials to comment on the constitution. For that I site my superior thinking and reasoning skills.


I did read. And as I said- you haven't demonstrated that you have any idea what jurisdiction is, or what it means to be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

You have, however, demonstrated that you are not a brilliant satirist. Or even a pedestrian one.

The Tolerator
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Postby The Tolerator » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:57 pm

Talon Newsman wrote:
buckyor wrote:What do you mean? Until this morning, I had no idea that foreign nationals visiting the United States were not under the jurisdiction of our laws.



Your small minded thinking is exactly how the lawyers and judges have changed the meaning of the constitution.

You think it all about whether or not someone is subject to the Barney Fife's of the world.

Good luck

juanton
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Postby juanton » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:03 pm

Good luck Tolerator, it may be a tough read.

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Postby Chuck_Schick » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:05 pm

The Tolerator wrote:I didn't site my jury duty as my credentials to comment on the constitution. For that I site my superior thinking and reasoning skills.

I believe you mean "cite" there, Einstein.

Yes, truly do we cower in your cognitive shadow.

Need a sharper shovel? That hole you're digging is getting awfully deep.

Henry Vilas
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Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:05 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:I doubt the founding fathers could have ever imagined waves of millions of illegals pouring over our borders in an unchecked fashion.

So said the Know Nothing Party when the Irish (in the millions) arrived in the mid 1800s.

Did they come here illegally genius?

My Irish ancestors did. They couldn't get in legally, because they advocated for Irish independence in the old country and the British overlords called that treason; so they had to sneak in. And they certainly weren't the only ones.

Talon Newsman
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Postby Talon Newsman » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:06 pm

The Tolerator wrote:...subject to the Barney Fife's of the world.

As a fellow conservative, I respectfully ask you to reconsider disparaging law enforcement authorities in this way.

thebookpolice
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Postby thebookpolice » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:08 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:My Irish ancestors did. They couldn't get in legally, because they advocated for Irish independence in the old country and the British overlords called that treason; so they had to sneak in. And they certainly weren't the only ones.


All-points bulletin for the H. Vilas estate! We've got an illegal here people! The Tolerator has informed us that decades of legal application and the 14th Amendment are wrong, and as such Mr. Vilas must be taken into custody, pistolwhipped for good measure, and sent back to his potato farm in Ireland!

Talon Newsman wrote:
The Tolerator wrote:...subject to the Barney Fife's of the world.

As a fellow conservative, I respectfully ask you to reconsider disparaging law enforcement authorities in this way.


...Yeah.

Mike S.
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Postby Mike S. » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:57 pm

Chuck_Schick wrote:Mike, once again you prove yourself a simpleton. Your "solution" may have some merit,


Well, right there I've got the Democrats and the Republicans beat...

but does nothing to address the fact that there are millions of undocumented workers currently flying under the radar, doing the shit work no one else wants to do, paying shitloads in taxes and contributing to the economy.

Hmmm... how many of those employees are paying taxes, and how many are working under the table? If the jobs that "Americans cannot and will no do" went unfilled by them, would they stay undone, or would people get a decent wage (and pay higher taxes...) doing them? Remember, Cesar Chavez proved decades ago that migrant workers could go from living in the fields in tarpaper shacks to making a decent wage with only a few cents rise in consumer prices for food. We don't have to accept that Third World wages and Third World people are the only way to make our society work.
How do you presume to round them up? How will you pay to cart them all back from whence they came? Oh, you can't?

It looks like I'm not the only one having a little problem with that. I said a more realistic immigration quota would help - I think in the long run that a plan for North America like what they have in the EU could be made to work - I just don't want that plan to mean that we all take a huge wage cut and accept even more social inequality and pollution and all the other Third World crap. In any case, the idea that we give up our immigration laws but I still have to break the law and am at risk of getting taken to the police station and beaten up if I try to buy cheap land and live in Mexico is not really one I'm fond of. How come Mexico, with all its poverty and problems, still can manage to crack down on illegal immigrants?
As for the rest of you, the immigrants are the only ones culpable, huh? Never mind that this company (and thousands of others the whole country over) are actively recruiting illegal immigrants into their workforce. As usual, those with the most power are the least accountable.

I do think that demand reduction approaches are the only effective law enforcement strategy, but I'm not a very trusting fan of law enforcement so I kind of overlooked that bit. If you want to force companies to crack down on illegals you have to go with some kind of internal passport/"REAL ID" system, making everyone register where they live at the police station and keeping a national dossier system. It would work but I don't like it so I look somewhere else for answers.
And despite that it was the major thrust of my post, not one of you has expressed the least sympathy that these young Americans have been dispossessed of their guardians. Such compassionate conservatives you are. Like it or not, children in this country are American citizens, regardless or the status of their parents. That's the law. Those of you bitching about their law-breaking parents ought to be equally outraged that these young citizens have been left in limbo because of the haste and political haymaking of a bunch of policy making goons who are shooting at easy targets instead doing the real work of national security.

Easy targets? I thought you just said enforcing the law was impossible. The plight of these children is real, but it's the same problem that any kid has when his parents get arrested for anything. You could have DCFS vans following the INS trucks, rounding up the kids for placement in foster homes... but they don't have a great reputation either. You could give any woman (and her husband?) a free pass to citizenship if she manages to drop a litter inside U.S. territory, but is that the path to citizenship we want to create? The fact is that the kid could be sent back to Mexico with the parents and he'd be no worse off than any other kid born in Mexico to parents who didn't break American laws, so why should we apologize for that? And if the parents choose to keep the kid here with strangers to enjoy the American educational system that's their choice of boarding schools, not ours.
I'll bet there's not one of you capable of proving that all of your forebears arrived on these shores with their papers in order. But white makes right, huh?

Actually, it's only the recent immigrants (of any race) who could prove that. But any kid born in the U.S., even from the illegals, does have his papers in order - that's the constitution, and the messy situation you suggest is why it was put that way.

Last but not least, paging all nincompoops on this forum: The "State in which you reside" is WISCONSIN, and if you're citizens of the U.S. you're citizens of Wisconsin. If the constitution didn't make that automatic you'd be much more aware of the distinction - even as it is there have been some notable cases e.g. with state school tuition residency requirements that have in my opinion gone far afoul of the constitutional ideal.


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