John Dean: USA Close to fascism

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Do you think Republicans are authoritarian?

Duh! Do ducks float?
16
89%
No! And it's a great offense to Dear Leader to say so!
1
6%
I'm afraid to state an opinion
1
6%
 
Total votes: 18

Ned Flanders
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Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:27 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Ned -
It sounds especially idiotic coming from you.
I know you're "kidding", but since you're a humorless fuckwad, it's just offensive.
Here's a thought: lead by example, for a change, whydoncha.


Ah, the queen of the cut-out bin has assumed his teenage persona once again. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Prof. Wagstaff
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Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:29 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Ah, the queen of the cut-out bin has assumed his teenage persona once again. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Yeah, Ned - God forbid I suggest you practice what you preach, for a change. Or, as you would say: :roll:

BTW - why does my owning and operating a home business make you hold me in contempt, again? I forget ...

Madcity Expat
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Postby Madcity Expat » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:29 pm

Chuck_Schick wrote:...January 19, 2001...


Hate to ask but, the State of the Union Address that year?

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Postby Chuck_Schick » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:30 pm

Madcity Expat wrote:
Chuck_Schick wrote:...January 19, 2001...

Hate to ask but, the State of the Union Address that year?

Bush was sworn-in the following day.

Madcity Expat
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Postby Madcity Expat » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:33 pm

Chuck_Schick wrote:
Madcity Expat wrote:
Chuck_Schick wrote:...January 19, 2001...

Hate to ask but, the State of the Union Address that year?

Bush was sworn-in the following day.


Oh, stupid me... I looked at that date and was thinking of the January following 911 - that would be 2002.

On that note - I would disagree with you slightly and suggest that Ned's current events calander extends as far as 1st May 2003. Pretty much blank after that.

Ned Flanders
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Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:51 pm

Please, share with us when Bush has kidnapped or burned his fellow Americans (including children) alive. I've given you concrete examples of facist behavior. I'm sorry that none of you can accept that because they don't feed your partisan hunger.

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Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:14 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:I've given you concrete examples of facist behavior.
No, you've given us two concrete examples of poor decision-making and/or action-taking. Pretending that righties and Republicans have never made any mistakes hardly makes everyone else the epitome of evil. You can't get annoyed at lefties and liberals for misusing the term if you're gonna apply it just as moronically. Fascism is a very specific thing. Why this is lost on 99% of the world is beyond me.

Oh, and for the last time, it's faScism, dipshit.
Kee-rist!

Madcity Expat
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Postby Madcity Expat » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:21 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Please, share with us when Bush has kidnapped or burned his fellow Americans (including children) alive. I've given you concrete examples of facist behavior. I'm sorry that none of you can accept that because they don't feed your partisan hunger.

No one sees partisanship as clearly as a partisan, Ned.

As usual Ned, you are an uncritical reader. Please go back and re-read the posts wherein Wagstaff and I both argue against using the word "fascist" to describe the GOP. "Authoritarian" is another matter entirely...

And while I can agree that the events you cite were heavy-handed (although I would characterize them differently than you do - context matters), I object to the characterization of them as "fascist" on the same grounds that I objected earlier to the characterization of the GOP as fascist - it's intellectually sloppy, hyperbolic and ahistorical.

I don't expect you to understand any of that. It's nuanced, and you don't do nuance.

And everyone!? The term is spelled FASCIST. 'k?

Madcity Expat
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Postby Madcity Expat » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:22 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:I've given you concrete examples of facist behavior.
No, you've given us two concrete examples of poor decision-making and/or action-taking. Pretending that righties and Republicans have never made any mistakes hardly makes everyone else the epitome of evil. You can't get annoyed at lefties and liberals for misusing the term if you're gonna apply it just as moronically. Fascism is a very specific thing. Why this is lost on 99% of the world is beyond me.

Oh, and for the last time, it's faScism, dipshit.
Kee-rist!


heh...what the Professor said.

Looks like we're on the same page today, eh Wagstaff?

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Postby AlphaLiberal » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:40 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Please, share with us when Bush has kidnapped or burned his fellow Americans (including children) alive. I've given you concrete examples of facist behavior. I'm sorry that none of you can accept that because they don't feed your partisan hunger.
Ned:

The intention in WACO was NOT to burn the children alive despite your deceptive description. That fire accidentally happened because the lunatic freak David Koresh put them in a bad position. I think officials acted prematurely, but I wasn't on the ground or hearing the first hand reports and neither were you. Plus, the dumbshits fired on federal agents which you, apparently, are okay with?

As far as the Cuban kid (Elian?), he was separated from his father and you guys wanted to make the decision for his father what to do with the child. That folds right into the authoritarian/budding fascist mindset that the Republican State Knows Best. Kind of like in the Schiavo case. (Both cases being in Florida, but this ain't the "Is Florida crazy or what?" thread).

So, stack up those lame ass examples against a President basically rewriting the Constituion to write Congress out, the budding fascists demanding the jailing of reporters and editors for reporting news the Admin had previously bragged about, people being abducted off thge streets and whisked away to secret prisons, torture, lies to start a war, politicization of a war, rampant Banana Republican corruption....

Ya ain't got jack.

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Postby AlphaLiberal » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:You can't get annoyed at lefties and liberals for misusing the term if you're gonna apply it just as moronically. Fascism is a very specific thing. Why this is lost on 99% of the world is beyond me.

That's not happening.

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Postby jhain » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:17 pm

AlphaLiberal wrote:The intention in WACO was NOT to burn the children alive despite your deceptive description. That fire accidentally happened because the lunatic freak David Koresh put them in a bad position. I think officials acted prematurely, but I wasn't on the ground or hearing the first hand reports and neither were you. Plus, the dumbshits fired on federal agents which you, apparently, are okay with?


Perhaps the FBI shouldn't have filled the house with flammable CS gas if they didn't want to burn up children.

Perhaps they could've executed their warrent by knocking on the door instead of a military assault.

Waco is a national tragedy. Blaming the victims, while popular, doesn't really get at the crux of the matter. Reno made a choice to kill those people over a gun law violation. "These boots were made for walkin'..."

I'm not saying that is is equal to the current situation of a President running roughshod over the Constitution but it isn't something that should be swept aside with excuses for official misconduct, either.

Henry Vilas
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Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:31 pm

Madcity Expat wrote:And everyone!? The term is spelled FASCIST. 'k?

And let me add, a lot is two words. (Just my personal bitch.)

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Postby AlphaLiberal » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:55 pm

jhain wrote:Perhaps the FBI shouldn't have filled the house with flammable CS gas if they didn't want to burn up children.

Perhaps they could've executed their warrent by knocking on the door instead of a military assault.

Waco is a national tragedy. Blaming the victims, while popular, doesn't really get at the crux of the matter. Reno made a choice to kill those people over a gun law violation. "These boots were made for walkin'..."

Now you made go read and think about that again. The Wikipedia account does not support your conclusion, though there was a lot of bad judgment and stupidity on both sides. Not that I'm a Waco Seige expert or anything.

What motivation would Janet Reno have to kill these people anyway?
Audio and infrared visual recordings made just before the fire broke show that the fires were started intentionally [citation needed]. The Davidians are heard saying, for example, "spread the fuel," and "don't light it yet."[citation needed] A surviving Davidian witnessed others pouring fuel inside the building and heard them talking about starting the fire.[citation needed] Critics suggest that CS gas was injected into the building by armored vehicles in an unsafe manner immediately before the fire broke out. However, at least two of the fires started well inside the building, away from any recent insertions of tear gas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege

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Postby buckyor » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:47 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Please, share with us when Bush has kidnapped or burned his fellow Americans (including children) alive. I've given you concrete examples of facist behavior. I'm sorry that none of you can accept that because they don't feed your partisan hunger.


You mean the example you gave of law enforcement personnel rescuing a child from his kidnappers, who unlawfully refused to return that child to his father? Are lawbreaking and the breakup of families a part of the GOP platfrom now?


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