Barak Obama pulls a Lieberman

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Is Obama becoming Lieberman's sucessor?

Yes, he lacks the courage of his convictions and caves easily
2
25%
Let's wait and see
4
50%
No, and I'll tell you why below
2
25%
 
Total votes: 8

Andy Olsen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: East side Madison
Contact:

Barak Obama pulls a Lieberman

Postby Andy Olsen » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:15 pm

Barak Obama's superstar status has a lot to do with one well-done speech. Perhaps many of us have rushed to embrace him too quickly.
Sen. Barack Obama chastised fellow Democrats on Wednesday for failing to ââ?¬Å?acknowledge the power of faith in the lives of the American people,ââ?¬? and said the party must compete for the support of evangelicals and other churchgoing Americans.

ââ?¬Å?Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation. Context matters,ââ?¬? the Illinois Democrat said in remarks prepared for delivery to a conference of Call to Renewal, a faith-based movement to overcome poverty.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2129271

Thanks a lot, Senator Obama, for pushing a false stereotype about Democrats. Many Dems and liberals and progressives are people of faith and are motivated by that faith. The overwhelming majority are respectful of people of faith. The problem you cite does not exist.

Plus when you define religion as the whacked out right-wing version, you do a grave disservice to all those Democrats of faith.

Now, it's true that the right wing and the media like to portray Democrats as hostile to faith. But it just ain't so.

This type of navel-gazing criticism is damaging to the Democrats, who really can't stand to be weakened much more. This is the type of stunt we'd expect from Joe Lieberman, to make himself more embraced by the chattering classes in DC.

After watching Obama get punked by McCain a few months back and now this, I'm losing enthusiasm for the guy.

Andy Olsen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: East side Madison
Contact:

Postby Andy Olsen » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:49 pm

A far more charitable review is here:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse ... g_reaction

It would seem one can pick parts of the speech to reach different conclusions. I like many of the passages this author picks out. But I still don't like the practice of accomodating false and destructive right wing themes. Agreed, the religious intolerance in this country is not coming from left.

I just hope he doesn't take up the War on Christmas!

AJ Love
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3618
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:11 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Postby AJ Love » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:27 am

It is early in Obama's career, so I still have a wait and see attitude, but I do think he has great potential... it seems very trendy on the Net lately to put down Obama, especially on places like the Daily Kos, but he is far from a Neo-Republican Hypocrite like Liarman...

Kanye Westsider
Forum Addict
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:06 pm

Re: Barak Obama pulls a Lieberman

Postby Kanye Westsider » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:35 am

Andy Olsen wrote:Barak Obama's superstar status has a lot to do with one well-done speech. Perhaps many of us have rushed to embrace him too quickly.
Sen. Barack Obama chastised fellow Democrats on Wednesday for failing to ââ?¬Å?acknowledge the power of faith in the lives of the American people,ââ?¬? and said the party must compete for the support of evangelicals and other churchgoing Americans.

ââ?¬Å?Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation. Context matters,ââ?¬? the Illinois Democrat said in remarks prepared for delivery to a conference of Call to Renewal, a faith-based movement to overcome poverty.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2129271

Thanks a lot, Senator Obama, for pushing a false stereotype about Democrats. Many Dems and liberals and progressives are people of faith and are motivated by that faith. The overwhelming majority are respectful of people of faith. The problem you cite does not exist.

Plus when you define religion as the whacked out right-wing version, you do a grave disservice to all those Democrats of faith.

Now, it's true that the right wing and the media like to portray Democrats as hostile to faith. But it just ain't so.

This type of navel-gazing criticism is damaging to the Democrats, who really can't stand to be weakened much more. This is the type of stunt we'd expect from Joe Lieberman, to make himself more embraced by the chattering classes in DC.

After watching Obama get punked by McCain a few months back and now this, I'm losing enthusiasm for the guy.


I'm confused. What exactly is your beef with BO. You seem to agree with him that we on he left have "faith". Is it because he said that we need to show it more?

I'm inclined to give BO the benefit of the doubt, even though i may not agree with him on this.

But i just wonder how you get through to people who hold faith as important,but turn around and vote for this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcofsmFXCYE

harrissimo
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:33 am
Location: Spaight Street on the Isthmus of Madison
Contact:

Postby harrissimo » Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:28 pm

I don't get it. What did he do that was so terrible? Have a little faith Andy!

Igor
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1876
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Barak Obama pulls a Lieberman

Postby Igor » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:53 pm

Andy Olsen wrote:Barak Obama's superstar status has a lot to do with one well-done speech. Perhaps many of us have rushed to embrace him too quickly.
Sen. Barack Obama chastised fellow Democrats on Wednesday for failing to ââ?¬Å?acknowledge the power of faith in the lives of the American people,ââ?¬? and said the party must compete for the support of evangelicals and other churchgoing Americans.

ââ?¬Å?Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation. Context matters,ââ?¬? the Illinois Democrat said in remarks prepared for delivery to a conference of Call to Renewal, a faith-based movement to overcome poverty.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2129271

Thanks a lot, Senator Obama, for pushing a false stereotype about Democrats. Many Dems and liberals and progressives are people of faith and are motivated by that faith. The overwhelming majority are respectful of people of faith. The problem you cite does not exist.

Plus when you define religion as the whacked out right-wing version, you do a grave disservice to all those Democrats of faith.


Well, in the same missive that you say that the majority of Democrats respect people of faith, you define some people of faith as "whacked out". I guess you aren't part of that majority.

Look at the city council - I believe there was a substantial debate about the phrase "the thoughts and prayers of the people of Madison are ... " in a resolution after 9/11. I suspect that even "the thoughts (and prayers of people of faith) of the people of Madison" would have been unacceptable as well. In there minds, I suspect that there was NO acceptable mention of God, faith, or religion by any employee of the government at any time.

Stupid stuff like this loses votes for Democrats. People that are on the fence are not going to gravitate toward the party where people roll their eyes, or at best tolerate them, if they should mention something about their church in conversation.

Daisy
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6044
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 10:51 am
Location: New York, NY

Postby Daisy » Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:31 am

It's been a while since the Democratic Party has been the most relevant or effective vehicle for moving any type of progressive agenda. When they controlled every branch of gov't, they wouldn't even pass Clinton's modest stab at "health care reform" (let alone a version more meaningful).

More recently, one could at least count on them to "stop the really bad stuff," but in the aftermath of NAFTA, the war, Bush's stacking of the courts and the assault on our civil liberties, we can't even count on them to do that.

The Obamas, Liebermans, Doyles et al of the world can go have their little intramural dramas - it doesn't really matter anymore. Their party's abdicated any relevance whatsoever.

Andy Olsen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: East side Madison
Contact:

Postby Andy Olsen » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:06 am

harrissimo wrote:I don't get it. What did he do that was so terrible? Have a little faith Andy!

I have faith. The shortest way I can say it is that my beef with Obama's approach here is the self-flagellation over media memes. Dem's really need to stop doing that, especially the opportunists like Lieberman who try to make themselves look better by castigating their party.

While I agree a lot of people should chill on religion and not get flustered when someone's faith shows up in their political statements, we don't need to beat ourselves up. We just need to find better ways to enunciate positive alternatives.

That's pretty much it. I'd have written sooner but have a had a rough week in the personal life.

harrissimo
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:33 am
Location: Spaight Street on the Isthmus of Madison
Contact:

Postby harrissimo » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:54 am

Andy Olsen wrote:That's pretty much it. I'd have written sooner but have a had a rough week in the personal life.


Good points Andy. I hope everything is OK.

Andy Olsen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: East side Madison
Contact:

Postby Andy Olsen » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:36 am

Thanks, Harris. A death in the family, which reminds one to live well.

Browsing some blogs over my morning coffee, I found this choice Obama quote from Digby (who rocks):
"It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase 'under God.'"


Digby then posts a neat citation from John Adams. Read more at
http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/2006 ... 9153837454

jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby jjoyce » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:51 am

Didn't Bubba host Billy Graham at the White House on several occasions?

Andy Olsen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: East side Madison
Contact:

Postby Andy Olsen » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:01 am

jjoyce wrote:Didn't Bubba host Billy Graham at the White House on several occasions?
I believe so.

But that's not a problem. I would hope the President would talk to people from all walks of life.

Clinton also issued a helpful guidanbce document to clarify the rules regarding prayer in schools. There's a fair amount of disinformation out there in that department.

jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Postby jjoyce » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:07 am

I'm just saying that Obama might be right. The last time this country elected a Democrat to the White House, it was a guy who was very publicly friendly with evangelists. Since then, you've had two candidates who were all but openly hostile toward that politically active group of Americans.

And I think Billy Graham held a more powerful position with the Clinton White House than simply chatting about different walks of life. Spiritual advisor probably wouldn't be overplaying it. It's a role he held with several presidents, including Nixon, Reagan and maybe even Jimmy Carter. Carter, by the way, was quite clearly a friend of evangelists as well.

If Russ gets the nod, he'd be well advised to choose a Southern Baptist or born againer as his V.P.


Return to “National Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 6 guests