The gentrification of the second amendment.

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 21177
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:34 pm

Some have advocated for Boston area residents to arm themselves with AK-47s. Can you image what would have happened to any resident who decided to patrol their own yard while armed during the voluntary lockdown?

penquin
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:19 pm
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby penquin » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:46 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:First off, there was no massive manhunt involved with 9/11 because the perpetrators were essentially, ya know, suicide bombers.


That's a good point, tho at the time we had no idea if there were going to be other attacks. And we didn't get a lockdown for the OK bombing either, did we? Or more recently, with the hunt for the rogue LA cop.

Secondly, lock down and/or curfew in the face of a serious public threat is hardly a new idea. The novelty in this case is simply the scale.


Now that you mention it, for natural disasters it has gone down like that. But I can't recall an entire city being shut-down in order for the police to capture individuals.

Would be interesting to get the take of somebody who's not merely an armchair civil liberties advocate.


In all fairness, I've done a lot more than just "arm chair" advocating for civil liberties. Don't wanna start bragging on myself, but I've spent some time on the front lines.

Times like this make me wish Ben Masel was still around. I would also be curious to know what Jeff Scott Olson thinks about the whole thing.

I'll bet the majority of Boston residents felt only mildly inconvenienced by all this, and I bet for many of them that feeling was far outweighed by a sense of relief at not having to send their kids off to school with a friggin' homicidal maniac explosives fetishist on the loose.


I wouldn't bet against ya on that one at all...and that is part of what also makes me kinda, well..."sad" was too strong of a word, 'cause there ain't no actual tears flowing....but it gives me a bit o' a heavy heart to see how much things have changed in our country, and how easily folks are willing to go along with it without even a whimper.

To be clear: I wouldn't have been one of those folks who said "Fuck off, I'm going to the streets anyways!!". I ain't upset at all about anyone doing what they were told. Rather, I'm concerned that nobody is saying anything at all about it afterwards and thus the precedent that has now been set.

The Boston cops acted like real professionals in this situation and I salute 'em. But imagine the LA police having those same powers...could get really ugly, really quickly.

HawkHead
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1176
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby HawkHead » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:02 pm

Of course there were no air flights for days after 911.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12634
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:17 pm

I think the Boston lockdown was more like a tornado warning. There weren't penalties for going out - people went out in their yards to be phone interviewed only a few houses from where the boat thing took place.

The public was warned to say inside for their own good, and if lots of them ignored the warning and went downtown, we haven't heard about it. People had the sense to follow instructions voluntarily, like we hope they do when a tornado is coming.

In the California thing, people near the semi-rural, mountainous site where the shooter was found were evacuated or told to stay inside. Boston is a densely populated urban area so it looked a lot different.

In either case, a lockdown, like a tornado warning, is not the same as martial law. This is making a mountain out of a mole hill, same as throwing a big fit because the surviving perpetrator is being charged in regular court not military. If we start having lockdowns every time somebody's parking meter expires, you'll know.

There are slippery slopes, but I think this is not an example.

Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:58 pm

snoqueen wrote: those of us who want gun regulations beyond what we've got now (which is hardly anything)


You must have a very curious definition of the term "hardly anything."

Maybe this will help:

hard·ly
/?härdl?/
Adverb
Scarcely (used to qualify a statement by saying that it is true to an insignificant degree): "it is hardly bigger than a credit card".
Only a very short time before: "the party had hardly started".


an·y·thing
/?en??THiNG/
Pronoun

Used to refer to a thing, no matter what: "nobody was saying anything"; "have you found anything?".
Used for emphasis: "I was ready for anything".

Synonyms
something - whatever - any - whatsoever


I would say it is more accurate to assert that you will find "hardly anywhere" in the country that does not have local or state regulation of firearms on the books. The tiny state of Vermont will probably be where you will find the least amount of regulation-- at the state level-- but even there they are subject to all of the federal laws which happen to have fairly substantial resources devoted to the administration and enforcement of the federal regulations. The ATFE bureau alone has about 5000 employees and a budget over over a billion dollars per year and offices across the country. I think you'd be upset if you thought they existed to hardly regulate anything at all. Would you care to elaborate on your comment?

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 21177
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:06 pm

DMan, from reading your past posts I reckon that you think the Second Amendment allows (nearly) any adult to possess any weapon. Would that include a pressure cooker bomb?

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5882
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:42 pm

Dangerousman wrote:The ATFE bureau alone has about 5000 employees and a budget over over a billion dollars per year and offices across the country. I think you'd be upset if you thought they existed to hardly regulate anything at all.


I don't think that's a fair assessment to make because they also regulate alcohol, tobacco, and explosives.

Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:19 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:DMan, from reading your past posts I reckon that you think the Second Amendment allows (nearly) any adult to possess any weapon. Would that include a pressure cooker bomb?


No, the 2nd Amendment doesn't allow anyone to do anything. It's about disallowing, i.e., government infringement.

Guns, knives, baseball bats, and pressure cooker bombs are all legal to possess (at least under federal law.) It's not legal to use any of them in a criminal manner. They're all subjected to different sorts of regulations.

Pressure cooker bombs are Title II weapons and regulated as such since 1934. Regulated, not prohibited. Perhaps those are some of the "reasonable regulations" you like to mention so often and that Snoqueen believes to be "hardly anything."

Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:29 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:The ATFE bureau alone has about 5000 employees and a budget over over a billion dollars per year and offices across the country. I think you'd be upset if you thought they existed to hardly regulate anything at all.


I don't think that's a fair assessment to make because they also regulate alcohol, tobacco, and explosives.


From that you think you are able to deduce that there are few federal regulations regarding firearms? Um, the term non sequitur comes to mind. What next, are you going to say there are few laws regarding bank robbery because the FBI also investigates civil rights violations?

Where do you think the ATFE devotes the greatest part of it's efforts? Let me help you with that. According to their website, 68 of their 2500+ special agents are involved in tobacco and alcohol investigations and some of those have only worked part-time on those investigations. That's about 1.3 agents per state. I don't think the moonshiners and cigarette runners are getting the bulk of the attention.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12634
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby snoqueen » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:33 am

One person's over-regulation is another person's under-regulation.

That probably sums up this entire topic and all the other *un topics, and those who remember how to use wildcard characters will know what I mean.

Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Dangerousman » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:50 am

snoqueen wrote:One person's over-regulation is another person's under-regulation.


Perhaps, but to claim that there is hardly any regulation of firearms is simply false by any objective standards.

wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby wack wack » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:58 am

Dangerousman wrote:
snoqueen wrote:One person's over-regulation is another person's under-regulation.


Perhaps, but to claim that there is hardly any regulation of firearms is simply false by any objective standards.


And completely true by any comparative standards.

Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Dangerousman » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:07 am

I'll take objective standards any day.

wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby wack wack » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:19 am

Dangerousman wrote:I'll take objective standards any day.


Of course, because you live in a vacuum.

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5882
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: The gentrification of the second amendment.

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:25 am

Dangerousman wrote:Perhaps, but to claim that there is hardly any regulation of firearms is simply false by any objective standards.


What are those objective standards? To simply say they exist is one thing, but for it to be objective, shouldn't you provide some sort of proof.


Return to “National Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests