Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby fisticuffs » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:15 pm

Nothing boneheaded about what Stave did or Anderson's call. Sorry you just don't know what you're talking about. The play call was safe and smart. Center the field goal leave ASU with a little less time. Plenty of time to set up and spike the ball. The refs screwed the pooch. ASU player was laying on a dead ball. Delay of game penalty. Free play. Thems the rules.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Violet_Skye » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:18 pm

How safe and smart was it if it makes your quarterback choke?

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:21 pm

Violet_Skye wrote:Stave is still a college kid, and being the parent of one currently, many of the things they do are 'foolish', because they are kids. He gets a pass from me. The coach, not so much.

Oh, I'm really don't mean to rag on Stave. I think he showed character in admitting his mistake right away, called it a learning experience. I'm also not that disappointed in the offensive coordinator who called for that extra play, it was just a mistake. The pros would have done that extra play, but they are more practiced and disciplined under pressure.

I am making my diatribe against the fans are blaming everything on the refs, when in fact it was the Badgers' poor decisions that put the refs in a difficult situation.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:26 pm

fisticuffs wrote:Nothing boneheaded about what Stave did or Anderson's call. Sorry you just don't know what you're talking about.


What Stave did was unarguably boneheaded. You hand the ball to the ref so he can quickly get the play going. Stave acknowledged his screw-up after the game. So you are correct that somebody doesn't know what they are talking about.

fisticuffs wrote:The play call was safe and smart. Center the field goal leave ASU with a little less time.


LOL. Whether ASU is left with 3 seconds or 8 seconds is not relevant.

Uhhh, the chances of a bad thing happening, especially a lineman not being set, leading to a game-ending penalty, are too high to mess with.

You're correct that refs messed up, but they were put in a nightmare situation. The defenders had a reasonable justification for jumping on the ball.

Again, you can just blame the refs, you are not entirely wrong, but I see that as lame.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:33 pm

Huck, you clearly don't know what the hell you're talking about. The refs whistled the play dead, hence shouldn't have allowed the ASU player to take a nap on the ball. Stick with Obamacare, because you're in over your head when it comes to football. Stop embarrassing yourself.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:43 pm

I just watched the replay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w_LQFClzO4

Actually, the refs did not do so badly. They were a little slow getting the ball spotted, but there was nothing wildly unusual or incompetent about their process. There was no "nap" on the football, the refs were trying to get things going. It's easy to say in hindsight that they should have stopped the clock, but hardly clear in real time.

From that angle, it doesn't look like Stave comes close to getting his knee down. But OK.

Obviously Stave is the main culprit, mindlessly putting the ball on the ground instead of handing the ball to the ref as he has been taught. Stave instigated the delay. Why anyone would dismiss this mess-up is baffling.

But the other screw-up was the decision to run the extra play at all, as the announcers explain clearly.

I would put the refs' delay in sorting things out, then their failure to call a delay-of-game penalty, as third on the blame scale.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:48 pm

Good Christ, this like arguing with Sandi. Sorry, Huck, but the opinions of experts are much more valid than a guy that thinks a game can end on a defensive penalty.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby pjbogart » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:14 pm

Andersen fucked up. He never should have called another play. If he'd had a time-out? Yeah. But with no time outs, 18 seconds on the clock and a young quarterback running the offense? No. Spike the ball, kick the field goal, win the game.

And I sincerely doubt that many of ASU's defensive players saw Stave take a knee behind his mammoth offensive line. What they saw was the ball laying on the turf.

So yeah, Stave kind of fucked up by not handing the ball to an official to set it for the next play, but there seemed to be no urgency on Wisconsin's part anyway, almost as if Stave was thinking that the clock stopped when he downed it.

Basically, a lot of things could have gone wrong and a few of them actually did. Even if they'd been smoother in their execution, maybe an extra guy on the field or a false start? If Andersen had just instructed Stave to spike the ball and sent on the field goal unit we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We'd be screaming for French's head when he missed it.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:21 pm

O.J. wrote:Good Christ, this like arguing with Sandi. Sorry, Huck, but the opinions of experts are much more valid than a guy that thinks a game can end on a defensive penalty.


Huh? I never suggested a game could end on a defensive penalty. Odd comment.

Where do you get the idea that you are an expert on football, btw? I've seen your opinions on football topics, you get things wrong, and excel only in being insulting and bitter.

The opinions I've expressed on this incident have been echoed by football media figures, as well as many Badger fans. There are different ways of looking at this, which apparently has upset your black-and-white mind.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:30 pm

pjbogart wrote: And I sincerely doubt that many of ASU's defensive players saw Stave take a knee behind his mammoth offensive line. What they saw was the ball laying on the turf.


Of course. Stave's little gesture was so quick and subtle you couldn't even see it on the video. Both the announcers missed it.

pjbogart wrote: there seemed to be no urgency on Wisconsin's part anyway, almost as if Stave was thinking that the clock stopped when he downed it.

Yes! He was stuck in frozen-brain mode, along with the referees, until the clock was down around 5 seconds.

pjbogart wrote: Basically, a lot of things could have gone wrong and a few of them actually did. Even if they'd been smoother in their execution, maybe an extra guy on the field or a false start?

I think people watch so much pro football that they forget the college players are very different, they're excitable & erratic (which sometimes makes college ball more interesting.) Watch a pro two-minute drill compared to a college team - totally different deal.
Last edited by Huckleby on Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:32 pm

One thing that bothers me: they review everything in college football. Why in the hell didn't the refs review the last play of the game, instead of just allowing Arizona State to stream onto the field?

That part was bogus.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Stomach » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:06 am

pjbogart wrote:Andersen fucked up. He never should have called another play. If he'd had a time-out? Yeah. But with no time outs, 18 seconds on the clock and a young quarterback running the offense? No. Spike the ball, kick the field goal, win the game.


I don't agree that Anderson f'd up. 18 seconds is a lot of time to run a play, down the ball and get it spotted to kill the clock. If you watch any amount of football you know this. The Wisconsin kicking game is not terribly reliable and the spot of the ball could be the difference in making the field goal, or missing it.

The officials job is to know the game situation and know the rules. The situation at the end of the Badger game is not rare, again, if you watch any amount of football you have seen something similar. The play was blown dead with about 15 seconds left, plenty of time to spot the ball for another play. The only thing odd about it was indeed Stave's kneel/placing of the ball. You can fault him for that if you like, or the decision to run the play at all, but of everybody on the field of play I would say the majority of the blame goes to the officiating crew.


pjbogart wrote:And I sincerely doubt that many of ASU's defensive players saw Stave take a knee behind his mammoth offensive line. What they saw was the ball laying on the turf.


You're right, they probably didn't see the kneel. Perhaps some of them didn't hear the whistle. Its still the officials job to handle the situation. Blow the whistle again to make sure all players and officials heard it and spot the ball. Their confusion and lack of reaction during a fairly standard end of game situation is the biggest issue here, more so than anything Stave and Anderson did. That's only my opinion, of course.

pjbogart wrote:So yeah, Stave kind of fucked up by not handing the ball to an official to set it for the next play, but there seemed to be no urgency on Wisconsin's part anyway, almost as if Stave was thinking that the clock stopped when he downed it.


He did kind of screw up there but I think the lack of urgency was really on the officials part, the players were waiting for them, as they are taught to do.

pjbogart wrote:If Andersen had just instructed Stave to spike the ball and sent on the field goal unit we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We'd be screaming for French's head when he missed it.


Which is probably why Anderson made the completely reasonable decision to center the ball and down it when they had 18 seconds left to play. If the decision to run another play had been made with 8 seconds to go I'd likely agree that Anderson f'd up.

Whats probably most frustrating is that we'll never know if he would have made the kick. It wouldn't have been a gimme given the pressure. The final scene was set and a technical blunder left everybody hanging. Sure, ASU gets a win, but wouldn't everybody (even ASU fans) REALLY really rather have seen that field goal attempt? Isn't that why we watch the games, to see the players decide the outcome, not confused refs?

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby doppel » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:45 am

The way I see it, we weren't robbed, we were fucked. By ourselves. When Stave didn't spike the ball, there was no incomplete pass to stop the clock. Even if he took a knee, the clock continues to run. When he immediately got up and ran to the middle of the field, he "fumbled" when he placed the ball on the field, leaving it for the defense to pounce on. Oopsie. At least it wasn't a Big Ten game.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:25 am

doppel wrote:The way I see it, we weren't robbed, we were fucked. By ourselves. When Stave didn't spike the ball, there was no incomplete pass to stop the clock. Even if he took a knee, the clock continues to run. When he immediately got up and ran to the middle of the field, he "fumbled" when he placed the ball on the field, leaving it for the defense to pounce on. Oopsie. At least it wasn't a Big Ten game.


If Stave had spiked it incomplete, the ball would have been placed at its previous spot. He needed to establish new position by taking a knee in the middle of the field, then snap the ball again and spike it to stop the clock. There was ample time to do so, and was the right move considering the inconsistency in the kicking game.

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:31 am

Huckleby wrote:Where do you get the idea that you are an expert on football, btw?


I only consider myself an expert when I'm standing next to you, Huck. I certainly don't consider myself as much of a rules expert as Mike Pereira or Bill Carollo. When the Pac12 reviews the situation today, I expect a similar response.


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