Mitchell report

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Henry Vilas
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Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:23 pm

The problem with the report naming names is that, in most cases, it's all hints and allegations. Without subpoena power, Mitchell had to depend on a lot of hearsay and other subjective second hand reports.

O.J.
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Postby O.J. » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:32 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The problem with the report naming names is that, in most cases, it's all hints and allegations. Without subpoena power, Mitchell had to depend on a lot of hearsay and other subjective second hand reports.


Yeah, and you know they didn't report every incident of hearsay. So, what was the litmus test? Selig claims he's going to suspend players on a case by case basis. Again, what is the threshold for proving guilt?

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Postby Paco » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:46 pm

boston_jeff wrote:Real list:
11. Jose Canseco

:shock:

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Postby Marvell » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:16 pm

Interesting that Mo Vaughn's name is on the list, and Albert Belle's is not.

I always thought that Belle's loss to Vaughn in the 1995 AL MVP race was a hosing of historic proportions; if it turns out Mo was juiced and Joey wasn't I will consider Belle doubly-hosed.

Pun intended.

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Postby boston_jeff » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:34 pm

As a Sox fan I loved the hosing of Albert Belle (Joey?), but I think that snub was due to his poor relationship with the media and Mo being judged a "good guy." Now we know Mo gets into fights at strip clubs and allegedly did steroids. Oh well. I don't think anyone is losing any sleep over Belle either way.

I bet Mo took HGH/roids for an injury, he was a big doughboy throughout his career.

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Postby O.J. » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:46 pm

Albert was called Joey when he first came up; his bat-corking incident probably cost him the MVP.

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Postby narcoleptish » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:19 pm

Steroids and sports (most sports).

Peanut butter and jelly.

If I cared at all about sports, other than my own involvement, I still wouldn't care about steroids. It's so common that anyone competing in upper level sports should just assume the competition has used. I'm sure people will argue, but enhancement drug gains are half in the mind. You can give a typical guy a placebo and tell him it's juice and he will automatically start training harder and make gains anyway. Some of the legal supplements are damn near as effective today. I did steroids a few times in the 80's and I've done creatine a few times in the last few years, and the results are pretty similar, except for the acne. Wealthy players will just find ways to hide it. There's too much money in winning.

I'm much more offended by the pervasiveness of bad tattoos in pro sports than juicers.

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Postby thebookpolice » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:35 pm

This wasn't a court of law. No guarantee of due process. Everyone on this list could have walked into Mitchell's office and disputed the story before publication. They didn't. Sucks to be them. I'd hire a new lawyer.

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Postby Oprah » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:55 pm

boston_jeff wrote:Real list:

59. F.P. Santangelo
60. Benito Santiago
61. Scott Schoeneweis
62. David Segui
63. Gary Sheffield


What about Sosa? I heard something on the radio that there was another list that included Sosa, and I thought I heard that Prior and Wood were included as well.

Does anyone know about this other list, or was I hearing things?

Henry Vilas
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Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:23 pm


Paco
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Postby Paco » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:36 pm

boston_jeff wrote:As a Sox fan I loved the hosing of Albert Belle (Joey?), but I think that snub was due to his poor relationship with the media and Mo being judged a "good guy." Now we know Mo gets into fights at strip clubs and allegedly did steroids. Oh well. I don't think anyone is losing any sleep over Belle either way.

I bet Mo took HGH/roids for an injury, he was a big doughboy throughout his career.

Might also have something to do with the fact Mitchell is on the Board of Directors of the Sox, or something like that.

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Postby dogmeat » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:52 am

minicat wrote:Here's a serious question for the baseball fans out there: Does anyone really care about this? Is anyone outraged?

It does actually matter. You can go on about corruption in government, but that doesn't excuse corruption elsewhere. MLB and individual teams get all sorts of breaks from the government. First of all, they do have a government sanctioned monopoly. Then there's local issues. If they want a new stadium, they get taxpayers to fund it. If they threaten to leave town, the owners get a break on their income tax or property taxes. The least the public should get in return is a game that isn't tainted by performance enhancing drugs. You know we're not going to get fair ticket or concession prices.

I stopped being a baseball fan a long time ago during the second strike. The owners and players are overpaid. I wish the public would abandon the sport and force them to come back to reality.

O.J. wrote:Selig claims he's going to suspend players on a case by case basis. Again, what is the threshold for proving guilt?

The determination for guilt is up to Selig. Joe Jackson was acquitted of the gambling charges in court, but Landis still banned him from baseball. The power of the MLB Commissioner really isn't foiled by lawyer tricks or rules of evidence. If Selig believes these guys used the drugs, he can ban them. He doesn't have to prove the case, he just signs the order.

I hope Selig does the right thing for change and bans everyone on that list. They can always be removed from the ban list, but for the sake of the game and public confidence, stern action must be taken. It's not like banning them destroys their lives. They can get a job like the rest of America.

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Postby aaronetc » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:07 am

Has anyone seen Mark McGwire listed anywhere but pre-report rumors? I'm really surprised to not him as one of the marquee names, and as far as I can tell he's not in the report.

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Postby nevermore » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:12 am

aaronetc wrote:Has anyone seen Mark McGwire listed anywhere but pre-report rumors? I'm really surprised to not him as one of the marquee names, and as far as I can tell he's not in the report.

#44

boston_jeff
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Postby boston_jeff » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:39 am

So back when you were a teenager you stopped being a baseball fan? Then you never were one. Lots of people get paid gross amounts of money to do their jobs, its doesn't mean that the game isn't still great. Throughout the history of professional sports there have been scandals and overpaid primadonnas, get off the high horse.


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