Homer call: 1/1/08--Packers no worse than 14-2?

Badgers, Packers, Mallards. Paddling, running, golfing. And bikes!

With how many wins will the Packers end the season?

3
0
No votes
4-7
0
No votes
8
0
No votes
9-12
8
62%
13-16 (heh)
5
38%
 
Total votes: 13

aaronetc
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Postby aaronetc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:58 am

TheBookPolice wrote:How many of these teams can Aaron Rodgers beat?


I'm shocked to be saying this, but if the Packers had any kind of pass defense last night, he'd have beaten the NFC's top team. Bring back Charles Woodson -- who ought to be getting some MVP consideration given how valueless the secondary was last night -- and it's hard to see how anyone except maybe Chicago gives them any trouble. And even then, is the Bears' D better than the Cowboys'?

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Postby Paco » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:12 am

Collinsworth obviously decided to remove his brain & mouth from his rectum during the course of the game.

Yes, Gumble is the worst, I warned you about that last week after watching his debut on Turkey day--fitting.

Dallas is beatable. I wasn't a big believer in the Packers, but after last night I am. With KGB & Woodson back, and less than 150 yards in penalties they have a good chance to win in Jan, if they're both still there.

ps, since when does going sideways towards the sideline constitute 'forward progress stopped'?

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Postby wack wack » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:16 am

aaronetc wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:How many of these teams can Aaron Rodgers beat?


I'm shocked to be saying this, but if the Packers had any kind of pass defense last night, he'd have beaten the NFC's top team...


Hmmm... perhaps if the Packers had any kind of pass defense last night, Rodgers would never have gotten into the game.

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Postby TheBookPolice » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:25 am

Honestly, is there any team whose secondary gets more bullshit calls made against them than Green Bay? Seriously. If someone knows of one, I'm all ears.

It's like the officials are under directive to punish GB for drafting and playing Joey Thomas and Ahmad Carroll for as long as they did.

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Postby aaronetc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:58 am

TheBookPolice wrote:Honestly, is there any team whose secondary gets more bullshit calls made against them than Green Bay? Seriously. If someone knows of one, I'm all ears.


I swear I was having flashbacks to the Jason Garrett T'giving game from, what, '96 or so, when he spent the whole game throwing deep to Irvin and maybe Kelvin Martin, and got about a dozen touchy pass interference calls in so doing.

And actually, I think interference calls have been generally bad around the league this year. The only offensive interference call I remember seeing was an obviously bad one against Randy Moss a couple weeks ago, but as often as not the calls against the defender could go either way.

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Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:14 am

Atari Bigby needs to go bye-bye.

And yes, Al Harris did intercept that pass in the first quarter.

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Postby O.J. » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:16 am

aaronetc wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:Honestly, is there any team whose secondary gets more bullshit calls made against them than Green Bay? Seriously. If someone knows of one, I'm all ears.


I swear I was having flashbacks to the Jason Garrett T'giving game from, what, '96 or so, when he spent the whole game throwing deep to Irvin and maybe Kelvin Martin, and got about a dozen touchy pass interference calls in so doing.

And actually, I think interference calls have been generally bad around the league this year. The only offensive interference call I remember seeing was an obviously bad one against Randy Moss a couple weeks ago, but as often as not the calls against the defender could go either way.


The offensive interference call on Moss in last Sunday night's game against the Eagles was ludicrous; there was no contact between receiver and defender. Madden pointed it out for a second and then dropped it. But, I guess you reap what you sow. Karma can be a real bitch sometimes.

Did anyone watch, or, more importantly, LISTEN to the broadcast of the Sunday night game. NBC had a microphone directed at Tom Brady that picked up and clearly relayed pretty much every one of his audibles to the listening audience. "Surprisingly", you didn't get the same feedback from A.J. Feeley.

They really need to institute instant replay on pass interference calls. When you're talking about a call(especially on a bomb where the officials are likely not in the best position to judge the play) that can so drastically impact the outcome of the game, it's mind-boggling that the league wouldn't allow for replay.

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Postby TheBookPolice » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:31 am

O.J. wrote:They really need to institute instant replay on pass interference calls. When you're talking about a call(especially on a bomb where the officials are likely not in the best position to judge the play) that can so drastically impact the outcome of the game, it's mind-boggling that the league wouldn't allow for replay.

It's too bad the NFL would never, ever consider changing their pass interference rule to mirror the NCAA's (15 yard max)

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Postby O.J. » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:39 am

TheBookPolice wrote:
O.J. wrote:They really need to institute instant replay on pass interference calls. When you're talking about a call(especially on a bomb where the officials are likely not in the best position to judge the play) that can so drastically impact the outcome of the game, it's mind-boggling that the league wouldn't allow for replay.

It's too bad the NFL would never, ever consider changing their pass interference rule to mirror the NCAA's (15 yard max)


I agree; a pass interference call that results in a 50 yard penalty is a tad bit excessive. I'm not sure why they would penalize this infraction significantly more than, say, a hold or block in the back that springs a runner into the endzone.

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Postby aaronetc » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:40 am

O.J. wrote:They really need to institute instant replay on pass interference calls.


I've never understood why "judgment" calls are the ones that can't be challenged. Shouldn't the official be able to make a better judgment if he can see it again from multiple angles? Particularly on something like the Moss call, where there was no contact at all.

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Postby buckyor » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:13 pm

Couple of things from last night:

First, I thought the Packers' run defense was excellent. The only decent running plays the Cowboys had were a couple of draws; otherwise the Packers shut down Jones and Barber. Good work there.

Pass defense was another story. Absolutely no pass rush. I don't know how much that was due to KGB and Jolly being out, but the guys that were in there did nothing. The secondary struggled without Woodson as well, but how exactly do you wind up with AJ Hawk covering TO? Bigby was ok, but Bush was pretty bad. Also, I expected to see more man coverage, but there was an awful lot of zone. Maybe because Woodson was out.

On offense, the Packers ran the ball pretty well. Except for one play where it looked like Clifton was pass blocking instead of run blocking, and Grant got drilled behind the line. Pass protection was abysmal; Colledge got a lot of the blame, but he wasn't the only offender. Aaron Rodgers looks like he can play. The receivers caught most everything in their direction.

Outside of Favre's injury, the severity of which is unknown, I'm really not all that discouraged. There are a few things to fix, and guys need to get healthy, but the Packers hung in the game on the road with one of the best teams in the league with their backup QB while missing a couple of key defenders. A win would have been better, but I think they came out of that game ok.

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Postby O.J. » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:39 pm

I agree; play that game on a neutral field with Woodson and KGB and it would have been a different story. The loss of those two can't be understated. The Packers have done an excellent job up to this point creating a pass rush from the front four, without needing to blitz. If you lose one of your better D-Lineman, you'd be more inclined to blitz,but that was tough to do without Woodson as a security blanket in the secondary. Furthermore, it was probably the Packers original intent to have Harris cover TO, wherever he was on the field. This would have necessitated the opposite corner to be comfortable playing either side of the field; no problem if Woodson was playing. Jarrett Bush...well, that's another story.

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Postby supaunknown » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:31 pm

buckyor wrote:I expected to see more man coverage, but there was an awful lot of zone.

I'm convinced that the Cover 2 is the worst defense ever. It only works around the goal line where things get bunched up. Any other spot on the field it leaves the safeties in one-on-one coverage situations if the opposing team sends guys deep. If the opposing team sends 3 guys deep they have a man advantage while the linebackers/nickel are back picking their noses 5 yards from the line of scrimmage.

How 'bout that 3rd & 19 that Dallas converted last night? What was Bigby doing on that play? QB spy? Cover 1? He was all alone in no-man's land 15 yards away from any action. Whatever, he's still a big upgrade over Marquand Manuel from last year.

That game harkened so many memories of all those other losses the Packers have had down in Dallas - not playing well, crooked refs, hard turf, no pass rush, Jerry fuckin' Jones, getting bullied, losing, etc.

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Postby O.J. » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:55 pm

Not sure if I agree with your analysis on Cover 2, Super. One of the main attributes of it is to prevent the big play...it's essentially a bend-don't-break zone that forces the offense into dinking and dunking. Plain vanilla Cover 2 usually only leaves 7 defenders in the box, not exactly a recipe for success in short-yardage(goalline) situations. If you watch the Colts play Cover 2, they have their safeties so far back it's next to impossible to beat them deep. But, as a with any scheme, you need the right personnel to run it. Specifically, you need team speed to generate a consistent pass rush(any zone defense will get picked apart without pressure), with hard-hitting safeties to come up and play the run.

When they had the talent to play it, Tampa Bay had one of the best defenses, year after year. The Pittsburgh Steelers of the '70's didn't fare too poorly with it, either.

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Postby supaunknown » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:58 pm

O.J. wrote:Not sure if I agree with your analysis on Cover 2, Super. One of the main attributes of it is to prevent the big play...it's essentially a bend-don't-break zone that forces the offense into dinking and dunking. Plain vanilla Cover 2 usually only leaves 7 defenders in the box, not exactly a recipe for success in short-yardage(goalline) situations.

Not sure if you understood my gripe about the Cover 2. I said it was most effective only in goal line situations where everyone is bunched up. I disagree completely that it takes away the big play - if anything it encourages the deep play because the safeties are left to cover deep all alone after the corners drop off. Dinking and dunking is pretty tough in a Vanilla 2 because the 3 linebackers and 2 corners are all in the 0-10 yard zone and aren't as easily prone to falling for misdirection or play action.


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