Berceau:Boost Beer Tax

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Raising beer tax to support alcohol abuse programs:

Good idea
15
56%
Bad idea
12
44%
 
Total votes: 27

Stu Levitan
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Re: Berceau:Boost Beer Tax

Postby Stu Levitan » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:30 am

pulsewidth modulation wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote:Pol brews up beer tax hike

Associated Press
April 5, 2005

A legislator has proposed increasing Wisconsin's beer tax from $2 to $3 per barrel to provide funds for alcohol abuse treatment provided by counties.

Rep. Terese Berceau, D-Madison, said Monday the boost would be only 2 cents per six-pack and "isn't a hardship for anybody."
...

She said her proposal would keep a tax break for small breweries and brew pubs, which pay half of the $2 tax on the first 50,000 barrels they brew.


are you serious??? this is wisconsin. we live and die by the drink, and we're proud of it.

you know what people in this state really need stu? property tax relief. when are you going to talk about saving money, not pointless ideas on how to spend more of it all the time?


Well, I think most people would disagree with your assertion that programs to combat alcohol abuse are "pointless." We could probably start with everyone who's known an alcohol abuser, which, in case you weren't aware, is an awful lot of Wisconsinites. And one way to provide property and income tax relief is by putting fees or taxes on specific behavior that relates to the programs being funded. It's not a moral issue, it's economics. You do something voluntarily that costs the rest of us money or creates adverse consequences for society, you should help pay for it. That's why the hunters and anglers support increased hunting and fishing fees, to ensure that their activity has a stable funding source beyond general taxes. That's why costs are imposed on parties that use the courts, why people who own a vehicle pay a license fee, and so on. I mean, come on -- the tax hasn't been adjusted since 1969, and you think it's at the correct level? You don't think alcohol abuse -- which implicitly connotes some level of excessive profit -- puts costs on society through increased crime and health care burdens? Sure, not everyone who drinks beer is an alcohol abuser. But everyone who drinks benefits from the operation of a society that provides for the industry and lets them drink (not always the case, remember). So they all have a stake in alcohol being a responsible part of that society. Do you really think TWO CENTS ON A SIX-PACK is burdensome? You really think a restaurant is going to reprint its menus to raise a glass of beer a nickle? As Johnny Mac would say, "you canNOT be serious!"

Chuck_Schick
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Postby Chuck_Schick » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:38 am

You know what they should tax? Clamato.

Anyone who drinks that shit deserves to pay more than his fair share.

jjoyce
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Postby jjoyce » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:23 am

Daisy wrote:One has to be a truly visionary pol in WI to go after beer.


Or one who usually runs unopposed.

To the extent that alcohol is a problem in our society, it would help if our public leaders could try to examine what can be done at the educational level to prevent early abuse and examine other causes for it, rather than taking this simplistic view.

I mean seriously, "user fee"? What kind of cliche political bullshit is that? Does Berceau think we're all idiots?

Daisy
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Re: Berceau:Boost Beer Tax

Postby Daisy » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:23 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:It's not a moral issue, it's economics.
Well, as has already been pointed out, the NET fiscal benefit of administering these kinds of gimmicks is questionable "economics" at best.
Stu Levitan wrote:You do something voluntarily that costs the rest of us money or creates adverse consequences for society
And what if your beer consumption DOESN'T cost anyone else money, or has no adverse consequences for society?

The #1 cause of death for Americans is heart disease, a condition rarely rehabilitated by vigrous consumption of butter, cream, red meat etc etc. From insurance premiums to tax levies (as the former impact the latter) to productivity losses, obesity and heart disease bring with them the same kinds of external costs you're saying alcohol does. So why not slap an additional tax on food? Or just on fatty food?

Ginny Bormann
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Postby Ginny Bormann » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:20 pm

Come on people, it's two cents on a six pack! Anybody claiming that's a hardship, or that Sconnie's don't suffer from a high rate of alcohol abuse is being disingenuous. And as there's already a beer tax in place there's no additional cost involved in administering this small increase.

I'm sick to death of politicians who never make a move without first holding up a finger to see which way the wind is blowing, so I give Berceau a lot of credit for proposing something she actually believes in. Too bad she didn't exhibit the same degree of backbone when Chris Kratochwill tried repeatedly to get her endorsement. But that's another thread...

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Postby jjoyce » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:30 pm

Ginny Bormann wrote:I give Berceau a lot of credit for proposing something she actually believes in.


Whatever. To me, this is one of those kinds of proposals that will make the morning news around the state with the introduction of "Get a load of what the Madison liberals want to tax now: Beer!" It smells pretty seriously of being out of touch.

And from a resident of Nakoma. Imagine that.

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Postby saltman » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:36 pm

Ginny Bormann wrote:Come on people, it's two cents on a six pack! Anybody claiming that's a hardship, or that Sconnie's don't suffer from a high rate of alcohol abuse is being disingenuous.


And what about the tax abuse that "Sconnie's" (you're not from here are you?) face? We're taxed up to our eyeballs already fer chrissakes, and the one thing that can help us relax (legally) is under more fire.

blunt
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Postby blunt » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:43 pm

Ask kids about Social Security and they're eager to skip it and invest instead; ask old people and they'll pull a gun on you before they'll let go of the one thing they can count on.

Ask politician legislator Christian Republican anal-retentive busybodies if we should raise the beer tax and they're all for it.
Ask ME, and I'll fight for my right to party.
Cheap.

Ginny Bormann
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Postby Ginny Bormann » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:46 pm

And what about the tax abuse that "Sconnie's" (you're not from here are you?) face?

Born and raised in Oconomowoc (but don't hold that against me). Lived here all my life 'cept for a few months in North Carolina back in '84.

We're taxed up to our eyeballs already fer chrissakes, and the one thing that can help us relax (legally) is under more fire.

If you feel that paying two cents more for a six pack constitutes being under fire, you do have a real problem.

Ginny Bormann
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Postby Ginny Bormann » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:50 pm

blunt wrote:Ask politician legislator Christian Republican anal-retentive busybodies if we should raise the beer tax and they're all for it.
Ask ME, and I'll fight for my right to party.
Cheap.

Would you classify Therese Berceau as a politician legislator Christian Republican anal-retentive busybody? Just checking.

saltman
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Postby saltman » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:58 pm

Ginny Bormann wrote:
And what about the tax abuse that "Sconnie's" (you're not from here are you?) face?

Born and raised in Oconomowoc (but don't hold that against me). Lived here all my life 'cept for a few months in North Carolina back in '84.

We're taxed up to our eyeballs already fer chrissakes, and the one thing that can help us relax (legally) is under more fire.

If you feel that paying two cents more for a six pack constitutes being under fire, you do have a real problem.


Congratulations on being the first WI native that I've ever known to use the word "Sconnie" :evil:

The point isn't the 2 cents. The point is that we'll just keep slowly bumping up the taxes on everything (gas last week). What's 2 cents here and and 2 cents there? It's how we got in this BS tax hell and there is no end in sight. I can't just keep increasing the amount of income I get every year, I have to live within my budget. The state should be held accountable to the same standard.

Ginny Bormann
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Postby Ginny Bormann » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:15 pm

saltman wrote:Congratulations on being the first WI native that I've ever known to use the word "Sconnie"

Actually, I never heard the term until I started lurking on the Forum. I think it's kind of endearing.

It's how we got in this BS tax hell and there is no end in sight.

Well, you get what you pay for, and taxes pay for the services that give us a high quality of life. You can move to states in the deep south and not pay much in taxes, but would you want to live in those places? I wouldn't.

Anyway, the whole "tax hell" theme is a ruse that's been pulled over on us by the John Gards of the state--gives them cover for shifting more and more of the burden from their deep-pocketed campaign contributors onto us working stiffs.

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Postby Paco » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:17 pm

How about figuring a way to make sure our wages equal to that of neighboring states instead of always taking, where's that policy? That'll effect us in a better way than taking more money from us.

I'd support it if it includes wine and liquor, which are as much if not more of the problem than beer is. And if whoever is getting this money really needs it. Nowhere in the article does it say that's the case. All it says is:
- "it hasn't been raised in a while" (GOOD!-nothing wrong with that.)
- 'it's the "right thing to do"'......(Raising a tax is always a last resort.)
- "We've got a drinking issue in this state,".......(and because of that, which hasn't been proven, we should raise the tax? How is this going to stop us from having a drinking issue? )
- "it's less than surrounding states" (GOOD! Why do we want to be on their level?)

There used to be a time when we said, we don't want to be like Illinois(remember?). Now we are saying just the opposite.

Daisy
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Postby Daisy » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:04 pm

Ginny Bormann wrote:Anybody claiming that's a hardship, or that Sconnie's don't suffer from a high rate of alcohol abuse is being disingenuous.
What's disingenuous is ingoring the fact that your average alcoholic gets more bang for the buck from hard liquor or fortified wine, neither of which this taxes. (Not sure whether Rep Berceau's Temperance Tax would include Malt Liquor.)

Speaking from observation as well as experience, if you really wanna drink pathologically, you're not gonna be fucking around with a pint of Sierra Nevada.

The point isn't the amount of the tax, but how politically tone-deaf libs can be sometimes. This is the kind of out-of-touch, bourgeois-nanny shit that makes people vote for Ed Thompson.

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Postby jjoyce » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:07 pm

Daisy wrote:This is the kind of out-of-touch, bourgeois-nanny shit that makes people vote for Ed Thompson.


Precisely. Kinda makes you wonder who's minding the shop.


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