Domestic terrorism

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Stebben84
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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:02 pm

kurt_w wrote:Sure. But please keep in mind that just because someone has the right to believe or say X doesn't mean X is a good thing to say or believe. You may have the right to believe crazy stuff, but I have the right to disapprove of your beliefs.


Beliefs and rhetoric can be dangerous as well. Cyber bullying comes to mind and internet sites like this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/1 ... 73944.html

Stormfront.org is linked to close to 100 killings in the last five years, the Southern Poverty Law Center found.


I don't think one can say that this site in particular "caused" the killings, but it's hard to deny that it didn't have a hand in fueling those deaths. I don't think you can truly say if a person would or wouldn't have killed because of this site, but it almost becomes like mob mentality when you have hatred filled sites.

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby snoqueen » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:37 pm

Gentle Man wrote:
snoqueen wrote:It's an easy distraction, though. The gradations between garden-variety right wing thinking and right wing terrorism are extremely fine, and instead of trying to draw the line between acceptable and not acceptable, it's far easier to go "look over there!"

Drawing the fine line might mean ruling some of your own allies out of bounds, and we can't have THAT, can we? I mean, actually making uncomfortable moral judgments?


Maybe you're having difficulty bringing yourself to say that there may be a fine line between terrorism and any sort of extreme political or religious view? Or is this not also the case with left-wing extremists?


It goes for both sides. I have no patience with eco terrorism, to give an example.

The lines have to be drawn any time people start going to extremes. To draw them with regard to one's own apparent allies is a fine discussion and nobody should shrink from it. With any luck, the discussions themselves can be a deterrent.

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby Bludgeon » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:05 am

snoqueen wrote:It goes for both sides. I have no patience with eco terrorism, to give an example.


Here is another example:

Failed plot to blow up Ohio bridge highlights potential 'Occupy' link to violence

Image
The suspects, Douglas Wright, 26, Brandon Baxter, 20, Anthony Hayne, 35, Connor Stevens,20, and Joshua Stafford, 23, allegedly tried to blow up the Brecksville-Northfield High Level Bridge, a span that brings 10,000 commuters across the Cuyahoga River daily. They rigged phony explosives bought from an undercover FBI agent at the base of the bridge and tried to detonate them using a text-message code, according to authorities.


How many bridges did the people in Nevada attempt to kill people with?

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby HawkHead » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:31 am

Bludgeon wrote:
snoqueen wrote:It goes for both sides. I have no patience with eco terrorism, to give an example.


Here is another example:

Failed plot to blow up Ohio bridge highlights potential 'Occupy' link to violence

Image
The suspects, Douglas Wright, 26, Brandon Baxter, 20, Anthony Hayne, 35, Connor Stevens,20, and Joshua Stafford, 23, allegedly tried to blow up the Brecksville-Northfield High Level Bridge, a span that brings 10,000 commuters across the Cuyahoga River daily. They rigged phony explosives bought from an undercover FBI agent at the base of the bridge and tried to detonate them using a text-message code, according to authorities.


How many bridges did the people in Nevada attempt to kill people with?


How many died in Oklahoma?

Questions like that are stupid. It 's trying to equate the sides. Or that the number that died means something. Or attempted to kill.

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you are on; killing innocent civilians to advance your cause is WRONG!

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby Bludgeon » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:57 am

HawkHead wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:
snoqueen wrote:It goes for both sides. I have no patience with eco terrorism, to give an example.


Here is another example:

Failed plot to blow up Ohio bridge highlights potential 'Occupy' link to violence

Image
The suspects, Douglas Wright, 26, Brandon Baxter, 20, Anthony Hayne, 35, Connor Stevens,20, and Joshua Stafford, 23, allegedly tried to blow up the Brecksville-Northfield High Level Bridge, a span that brings 10,000 commuters across the Cuyahoga River daily. They rigged phony explosives bought from an undercover FBI agent at the base of the bridge and tried to detonate them using a text-message code, according to authorities.


How many bridges did the people in Nevada attempt to kill people with?


How many died in Oklahoma?

Questions like that are stupid. It 's trying to equate the sides. Or that the number that died means something. Or attempted to kill.

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you are on; killing innocent civilians to advance your cause is WRONG!

I thought moral relativism was like oxygen for Madisonians? Fair enough, though. But the truth is the people in Nevada haven't plotted to kill anyone at all. Kurt's just looping them together because he's obediently following the call from on high to always refer to opposing ideologies as "terrorists". There were plenty of claims bandied about the "Tea Party" calling them "terrorists", or "extremists". The truth is they were just the people on the other side.

If politics were a football game, it would be like training your team to consider the opposing team as "evil". So anything goes, wink wink. Those idiots from Occupy Cleveland were just socially inept enough that they took the underlying subtext literally. They didn't realize they were just supposed to hate, not kill, the other side.

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby wack wack » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:16 pm

DCB wrote:Woah! that's crazy talk. Now you're talking just like the wingnuts you apparently don't agree with.


kurt_w wrote:Yeah, can we please not advocate "eliminating people"? Good grief.


kurt_w wrote:
Gentle Man wrote:I don't think criminal behavior ought to be tolerated from any person or group. Just having extreme views however is their right along with a right to express the views.

Sure. But please keep in mind that just because someone has the right to believe or say X doesn't mean X is a good thing to say or believe. You may have the right to believe crazy stuff, but I have the right to disapprove of your beliefs.


This has nothing to do with ideas. If Mr. Bundy pays his taxes, he can say whatever he wants. Until then, he is a criminal and anything has has to think or say is irrelevant.

I hate to disagree with those I admire, but Mr. Bundy is not just an independent agent; he's a rabble-rouser and should be dealt with accordingly. This goes way beyond some jackass popping off; he is a threat.

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby DCB » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:14 pm

wack wack wrote:
I hate to disagree with those I admire, but Mr. Bundy is not just an independent agent; he's a rabble-rouser and should be dealt with accordingly. This goes way beyond some jackass popping off; he is a threat.

I think you're right. I just don't like the term 'eliminate'. How about arrest?

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby HawkHead » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:34 pm

Bludgeon wrote:I thought moral relativism was like oxygen for Madisonians? Fair enough, though. But the truth is the people in Nevada haven't plotted to kill anyone at all. Kurt's just looping them together because he's obediently following the call from on high to always refer to opposing ideologies as "terrorists". There were plenty of claims bandied about the "Tea Party" calling them "terrorists", or "extremists". The truth is they were just the people on the other side.

If politics were a football game, it would be like training your team to consider the opposing team as "evil". So anything goes, wink wink. Those idiots from Occupy Cleveland were just socially inept enough that they took the underlying subtext literally. They didn't realize they were just supposed to hate, not kill, the other side.


Then why did all those people go to the ranchers land with guns and say that if the Feds come on the land they would shoot?

As to your politics paragraph, thanks for the laugh.

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby kurt_w » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:13 pm

Bludgeon wrote:But the truth is the people in Nevada haven't plotted to kill anyone at all. Kurt's just looping them together because he's obediently following the call from on high to always refer to opposing ideologies as "terrorists". There were plenty of claims bandied about the "Tea Party" calling them "terrorists", or "extremists". The truth is they were just the people on the other side.

Liar.

I do not "always refer to opposing ideologies as 'terrorists'".

I referred to the guy lying on the roadway aiming his rifle in practice for extrajudicial killing of other Americans as a "terrorist", though perhaps "wannabe terrorist" would be better.

If that hurts your feelings, here's an easy solution:

Don't self-identify with people who pose for photographs while in the act of preparing to murder Americans for ideological reasons.

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby kurt_w » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:32 pm

snoqueen wrote:I have no patience with eco terrorism, to give an example.

Very good. But for all the talk of "eco terrorism", most of the actual terrorism runs in the opposite direction:

Image

More here.

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Re: Domestic terrorism

Postby penquin » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:52 pm

wack wack wrote:If Mr. Bundy pays his taxes, he can say whatever he wants. Until then, he is a criminal and anything has has to think or say is irrelevant.


Credit where credit due...when you say nobody has any rights you really mean all the rights, not just the ones that personally scare you.

(PS - Odds are you're a criminal as well. As well as most of the regular forons.)

Bludgeon wrote:But the truth is the people in Nevada haven't plotted to kill anyone at all.


Not true. Its been reported that they were plotting to have their own women and children in the very front of the group, so that if a gunfight was to erupt they would die first and make the Feds look bad.

Plus, the fact that the Bundy Gang had snipers along the highway who were actively acquiring targets makes it pretty clear that they were planning to kill Federal Agents. Would you point a firearm at somebody/something you didn't intend to shoot?


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