Science vs. Crazy

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Prof. Wagstaff
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:13 pm

kurt_w wrote:You could have a single universe that lasts forever, but in which the same events keep happening over and over again
This is theoretically possible, but doesn't seem to be a description of the universe in which we live, as ours appears to have directionality in time as well as a definite beginning. That is, our universe was born in the Big Bang and has steadily expanded and cooled to produce everything we see around us (and which will eventually expand and cool so much that processes requiring energy can no longer be maintained.) For your scenario to play out, the universe would have to be reborn -- that is, there would need to be a new Big Bang event following from which everything would unfold exactly as it has (at least once) before. But if there's a new Big Bang, is it correct to think about it as being the same universe? I don't think so, but your ymmv.

kurt_w wrote:In contrast, the many-worlds interpretation of quantum dynamics really would lead to all possible outcomes.
This hardly guarantees that you would become Supreme Ruler or be adept at wearing hats. It could simply be that there are no points from which another universe could diverge from our own where circumstances permit these possibilities. On the other hand, they are both theoretically possible, so again, given an infinite amount of time and infinite space to work with, they would eventually happen because probability says they must. Heck, if the universe is already infinitely large (a very distinct possibility), that means there are portions of it so distantly separated from us that they can never be observed and no interaction between them and us will ever be possible. In such a scenario, it's actually pretty likely that there's already a kurt on another Earth who reigns supreme and is dashingly behatted.

Stella_Guru
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:51 pm

rabble wrote:I could have sworn the creationists explained all that away by noting that God had put all that evidence there to make it appear that the earth had been around for longer than X thousand years.

I can't remember anyone giving a reason why God would do that. Maybe because she has a sense of humor.

Shouldn't any serious discussion such as this begin with a definition of the term 'God'? Taking the 'us' out of it to include the 'All' makes possible a short and easy definition, 'All that is'. This makes God and Being mean essentially the same thing. Why not be content with the 'All Being' or the 'Great Entirety'?

rabble
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby rabble » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:11 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:
rabble wrote:I could have sworn the creationists explained all that away by noting that God had put all that evidence there to make it appear that the earth had been around for longer than X thousand years.

I can't remember anyone giving a reason why God would do that. Maybe because she has a sense of humor.

Shouldn't any serious discussion such as this begin with a definition of the term 'God'? Taking the 'us' out of it to include the 'All' makes possible a short and easy definition, 'All that is'. This makes God and Being mean essentially the same thing. Why not be content with the 'All Being' or the 'Great Entirety'?

That's fine with me. Trot it out at the next meeting of the Intelligent Design affirmation group and let me know how it flies.

Stella_Guru
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:43 pm

rabble wrote:That's fine with me. Trot it out at the next meeting of the Intelligent Design affirmation group and let me know how it flies.

They're not going to ask me for an offering are they?

Huckleby
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby Huckleby » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:06 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:Shouldn't any serious discussion such as this begin with a definition of the term 'God'?

Swami Lennon: "God is a concept by which we measure our pain"

He continues
"I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-Ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in yoga
I don't believe in kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me
Yoko and me
And that's reality"

DCB
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby DCB » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:29 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
So, DCB -- is this debate actually worthwhile listening? Is it entertaining? I've been going back and forth on whether I want to invest the time to listen to it. I do love Nye and I enjoy hearing anti-science arguments demolished by reason, but something about this seems to me like it might just be kind of a slog.

I don't think its very entertaining. Nye illustrates some of the evidence for evolution, but you might have heard all that before. And Ham just makes it very clear he rejects everything we call science because it conflicts with his very narrow interpretation of Christianity.

Mad Howler
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby Mad Howler » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:57 am

kurt_w wrote:I do like the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, because it implies that somewhere there is a Kurt W. who is Supreme Ruler of the World and who is also able to wear hats without looking like a doofus.


Doofus?
No, hats will not be your problem.
Facts and your support for them,
May be a problem with the doofuses you engage.
Rhetorical questions-
Why do the doofuses rule, is it a consequence of power or a prerequisite?

O.J.
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby O.J. » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:12 pm


kurt_w
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby kurt_w » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:20 pm

Thanks for the link. That's not bad.

DCB
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby DCB » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:00 pm

I like this one:
The only way I can explain a complex universe is by imagining an even more complex God who can't be explained.


although I would probably phrase it as
The universe cannot be more complex than I personally can imagine.

snoqueen
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby snoqueen » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:15 pm

I liked "if we came from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?"

nutria
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby nutria » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:51 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
kurt_w wrote:You could have a single universe that lasts forever, but in which the same events keep happening over and over again
This is theoretically possible, but doesn't seem to be a description of the universe in which we live, as ours appears to have directionality in time as well as a definite beginning.


There is an interesting possibility which makes these two scenarios not necessarily incompatible: If the total energy content of the universe is above some critical value, what you would see is Big Bang..expansion...slowing then stopping...compression...Big Crunch...Big Bang... As of my leaving the field for the private sector, this was regarded as an open question in some circles. (IMHO, the evidence is not on the side of this scenario, however.) This leads to further interesting questions about time: What is its structure? Does it have a beginning and/or end? Is it closed? It may be a semantical point, but interesting to think about.

Remember_Me
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby Remember_Me » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:24 pm


Henry Vilas
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:40 am

Bill Nye is going after climate change deniers next.

He will debate Tennessee Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn on "Meet the Press" later this morning.

city2countrygal
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Re: Science vs. Crazy

Postby city2countrygal » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:36 am

Marsha: "blah, blah, blah, cost benefit analysis, blah, blah, blah"

Bill: "You are our leader. We need you to change things, not deny what's happening."

Watch


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