Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

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gozer
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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby gozer » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:08 pm

david cohen wrote:I think we can all agree that heroin addiction, in particular, has no rhyme or reason. It only has one ending for, as you point out, folks can get clean for a very long time but end up chasing the dragon again eventually. Very few manage to keep the beast at bay forever.


true full-blown opioid addiction has a 98 per cent relapse rate . . . i am thinking that the abstinence-only school of thought is the failure for opioids that it is for sex ed.

at the other end of the continuum from the unfortunate cases under discussion are folks who managed to get environmental and any quality-control issues under control and lived with the physical habituation without a problem, indeed it may have allowed them to live to phenomenally old ages them by slowing their metabolism, stabilising blood sugar, and lowering their blood pressure; one of the founders of johns hopkins medical school shot up morphine two to five times a day for 65 years, several of the united states' founding fathers had iatrogenic physical dependence on opioids (in most or all cases not true addiction) that lasted decades until their deaths from old age or other causes; a handful of people have been on morphine or the like for up to 100 years or thereabouts.

very few people could survive being surprised by a charge of fent in their h, especially if they had been trying to kick down/detox. hoffman's death may have been negligent homicide on the part of supplier, perhaps?

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby david cohen » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:15 pm

CNN, for a change, has a really good article about heroin. The comments also include some really good material too. From junkies to boot:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/04/health/ho ... ?hpt=hp_t2

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby pjbogart » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:46 pm

I think if I won the lottery I'd make it a point to become a heroin addict. I mean, yeah, it's bound to kill you eventually, but the last few years of your life would be pure ecstasy, which is pretty much the opposite of how most of us check out.

And no, you don't have any regrets when you're dead.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby gozer » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:43 am

pjbogart wrote:I think if I won the lottery I'd make it a point to become a heroin addict. I mean, yeah, it's bound to kill you eventually, but the last few years of your life would be pure ecstasy, which is pretty much the opposite of how most of us check out.

And no, you don't have any regrets when you're dead.


the pure ecstasy is the reason for the hysteria, unhealthy attitudes, and schadenfreude in o d cases about drugs, especially opioids and to a lesser extent stimulants -- it's just like sex. u s a does, after all, stand for "unhealthy sexual attitudes"

"puritanism is the morbid debilitating fear that someone, somewhere is having a good time."
-- often attributed to camille paglia

a clean, consistent supply of h or script or a non-injectable like op could also allow a lottery winner to live to the age of 120 and love every day and everyone around them in the process, in theory.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby Mad Howler » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:04 am

God damn paywalls!
This is very relevant to this discussion.
https://www.sciencemag.org/content/343/6170/478.summary
READ if you have access.
Dr. Nutt is NOT nuts.
Although, peoples collective confusion often is.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby Huckleby » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:17 am

I agree that some drugs enhance creativity, as well as expand your horizons.
Also, in theory, drugs could be mostly upside, and use of drugs is bound to increase if/when they are delivered more safely.

But what is the reality on the ground? I've never heard of anybody who used drugs extensively who didn't wreck themselves considerably. Cocaine, ecstacy, heroin ... all the others ... lead to negative personality changes and misery. Same as alchoholism.

A point I was trying to make earlier was that the focus of some of the comments here has been on the physical/medical challenges of addiction. Thinking of addiction in those terms oversimplifies the problem, and can lead to moralizing. The big monkey with addiction is the emotional dependency. Without the emotional component, solving addictions would be clinical and predictable, but in fact recidivism is high in all addictions.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby rabble » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:26 am

Huckleby wrote:But what is the reality on the ground? I've never heard of anybody who used drugs extensively who didn't wreck themselves considerably. Cocaine, ecstacy, heroin ... all the others ... lead to negative personality changes and misery. Same as alchoholism.

It's the "extensively" part that's the key. Extensive use ie overuse of anything, including sugar, is self destructive.

I tend to side with the people who say that if we invest half the money we're currently spending for the war on drugs into rehab and outpatient addiction treatment and prevention, we'd minimize the damage done and still save billions.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby Huckleby » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:32 am

rabble wrote: we invest half the money we're currently spending for the war on drugs into rehab and outpatient addiction treatment and prevention

I doubt anybody here disagrees with this.

Does anybody know anyone who was able to use drugs as a regular part of their lives who didn't have problems? I'm not talking about weed, or very infrequent shroom/ecstacy. I mean some drug beyond pot once per week or more.

I think drugs are a very dangerous, slippery slope.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:20 pm

Huckleby wrote:Does anybody know anyone who was able to use drugs as a regular part of their lives who didn't have problems?


Not sure what you mean by problems, but William Burroughs lived to be 87 and was a heroin addict. He seemed to do pretty well for himself. Not sure how happy he was.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby Bwis53 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:20 pm

I've read and observed that many addicts self medicate to cover other problems. Shame that mental illness and treatment are still stigmatized.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby rabble » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:27 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Does anybody know anyone who was able to use drugs as a regular part of their lives who didn't have problems?


Not sure what you mean by problems, but William Burroughs lived to be 87 and was a heroin addict. He seemed to do pretty well for himself. Not sure how happy he was.

He's the one who killed his wife in a drunken pistol version of William Tell. I'm going to go with "problems."

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby Huckleby » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:07 pm

rabble wrote: If I recall, he's the one who killed his first wife in a drug hazed pistol version of William Tell. I'm going to go with "problems."


Burroughs or Hunter S. Thompson?

Burroughs had miserable, painful struggles with addiction.

It just so happens that I have a William Burroughs quote regarding his drug struggles taped to side of my computer monitor:
"I don't have to use any willpower. Dr. Dent always said there is no such thing as willpower. You've got to reach a state of mind where you don't want it or need it."

I think these are wise words that apply to a variety of addictive behaviors.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby rabble » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:25 pm

Huckleby wrote:
rabble wrote: If I recall, he's the one who killed his first wife in a drug hazed pistol version of William Tell. I'm going to go with "problems."

Burroughs or Hunter S. Thompson?

In 1951, Burroughs killed Vollmer by shooting her in the head in what was apparently a drunken attempt at playing William Tell.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:50 pm

Huckleby wrote:Does anybody know anyone who was able to use drugs as a regular part of their lives who didn't have problems?

We are still waiting for gozer's response.

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Re: Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead at 46

Postby gozer » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:23 pm

rabble wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Does anybody know anyone who was able to use drugs as a regular part of their lives who didn't have problems?


Not sure what you mean by problems, but William Burroughs lived to be 87 and was a heroin addict. He seemed to do pretty well for himself. Not sure how happy he was.

He's the one who killed his wife in a drunken pistol version of William Tell. I'm going to go with "problems."


that was drunken, i.e. associated with, as he called it, "lush", not m or smack.


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