A comparison (another gun thread)

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:48 pm

Dangerousman wrote:I suppose it could be done, but not "easily."

It's a process that can be done without much skill or finesse, apparently. I'm at the edge of my seat, as I cannot fathom how one would place the proverbial 20 pounds of shit in a 10 pound bag. I hope Sandi has details.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:51 pm

Dangerousman wrote:[... guns like AR-15's serve to handle things other than to just kill a lot of people quickly.

Really? Such as...

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:53 pm

O.J. wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:But if I gave you a pop quiz, I'd have to grade with more strictness.


I just got a copy of that quiz, here's a sample question:

1. How often do you arm yourself when you mow your lawn?

a)Always
b)Always
c)Always
d)All of the above


Kind of the wrong question. Unless my destination is a place I cannot legally be armed-- which is more often then you might expect-- I tend to get armed at the time I get dressed, and disarm when I get ready for bed. I don't arm up specifically to do yard work. In fact, for the sake of comfort and weight, I probably tend to be less well-armed while doing yard work than I am otherwise. I.e., a pocket gun or just a folding knife.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:01 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:[... guns like AR-15's serve to handle things other than to just kill a lot of people quickly.

Really? Such as...


OK, how about such as handling just one Adam Lanza, or just one Aaron Alexis?

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:02 pm

Dangerousman wrote: I tend to get armed at the time I get dressed, and disarm when I get ready for bed. I don't arm up specifically to do yard work. In fact, for the sake of comfort and weight, I probably tend to be less well-armed while doing yard work than I am otherwise. I.e., a pocket gun or just a folding knife.

Reminds me of some lines from a Buffalo Springfield song:
"There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware"

And:
"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid"

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:04 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: I tend to get armed at the time I get dressed, and disarm when I get ready for bed. I don't arm up specifically to do yard work. In fact, for the sake of comfort and weight, I probably tend to be less well-armed while doing yard work than I am otherwise. I.e., a pocket gun or just a folding knife.

Reminds me of some lines from a Buffalo Springfield song:
"There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware"

And:
"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid"


Oh hell, Henry, sorry to disappoint you but I haven't been afraid for a long long time. What do I have to fear?

I'm prudent. I don't fear a house fire, but I have a fire extinquisher on each floor "just in case"-- because it could happen, and I'm prepared. If you're prepared, you have much less reason to fear something.

You're a sorry case, however. You're afraid of your law-abiding neighbors. Now that's some heavy duty paranoia creeping in.

You afraid to live in a society where there are free men and free women.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:11 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:[... guns like AR-15's serve to handle things other than to just kill a lot of people quickly.

Really? Such as...


OK, how about such as handling just one Adam Lanza, or just one Aaron Alexis?

You certainly live in Fantasyland. What cilivians should have been armed with an AR-i5 at the elementary school or at the Navy yard where those mass murders occurred?

Details, please.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:24 pm

This thread is going down the same wormhole the last gun threads did. The same exact shit is being said. It's like Groundhog Day.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:59 pm

Stebben84 wrote:This thread is going down the same wormhole the last gun threads did. The same exact shit is being said. It's like Groundhog Day.

To be fair, Sandi is bringing up some new shit. (Yeah, she does that.) Not sure who's feeding her the lines, but this inquiring mind wants to know.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby penquin » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:09 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:All the recent mass shootings were with high capacity weaprony. That has everything to do with this discussion.


The original post is talking about each&every shooting, including self-defense, not just mass shootings.

It seems to be a trend across the nation to spread fear about guns in general, rather than just focus on criminal behavior.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:26 pm

penquin wrote:The original post is talking about each&every shooting, including self-defense, not just mass shootings.


Stop trying to draw the focus away from white kids in nice neighborhoods being killed.

If we do that Henry might have to admit the biggest gun control issue we face isn't assault rifles with giant magazines, and D-man might have to actually defend his belief that universal background checks won't limit the number of guns in the hands of criminals.

Fuck, we might even have to start figuring out what causes the violence in the first place and how to stop it.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby snoqueen » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:44 pm

Why do the police have AR-15's?


From what I can figure, the police don't want to lose the arms race against the drug distribution network, or against anybody else either.

It hardly makes sense to send the police out to police people who are armed far beyond what they themselves have at hand. I can imagine the police departments themselves were the ones demanding more powerful arms.

The way to prove or disprove this would be to find out who had what arm first, and whether the police were reacting to the environment in which they worked, or were ahead of the game.

Dman: Have you read C.J. Chivers book The Gun? It's a military history focused on Stalin's Kalashnikov, its precursors, and the changes it's brought to warfare around the world in the last 66 years. I read it when it first came out, it came up in a discussion here a couple weeks ago, and I then checked it out for a re-read. It's even more interesting the second time through. The author is a demon for research detail, and has a background that gives him standing to state some strong opinions. I can't imagine you haven't read it, but if you haven't I think you'd enjoy it.

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Ducatista » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:27 am

Dangerousman wrote:Well in that regard you'd fit in well with a lot of the online gun enthusiasts who can't pass up an opportunity to correct someone who dares to use the word "clip" instead of "magazine."  Historically however it's not so cut and dried.  Over a century ago, when the Colt 1911 was announced as the new pistol of the US military, the official literature of the time referred to the gun's "clips."  I don't consider it to be a serious transgression in most conversations, so I tend to be forgiving of the imprecise usage.

Come on, D-man, don't fib. You've busted out the "not a clip" correction more than once on this forum at people who disagree with you. Sounds like selective forgiveness... or maybe you're trying to evolve? In which case, way to go!

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:59 am

Ducatista wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:Well in that regard you'd fit in well with a lot of the online gun enthusiasts who can't pass up an opportunity to correct someone who dares to use the word "clip" instead of "magazine."  Historically however it's not so cut and dried.  Over a century ago, when the Colt 1911 was announced as the new pistol of the US military, the official literature of the time referred to the gun's "clips."  I don't consider it to be a serious transgression in most conversations, so I tend to be forgiving of the imprecise usage.

Come on, D-man, don't fib. You've busted out the "not a clip" correction more than once on this forum at people who disagree with you. Sounds like selective forgiveness... or maybe you're trying to evolve? In which case, way to go!


I don't know. From what I've read in another thread, evolution is still controversial!

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Re: A comparison (another gun thread)

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:20 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Fuck, we might even have to start figuring out what causes the violence in the first place and how to stop it.


If that's where the focus was centered, I wouldn't have a problem. Because that's where it ought to be centered. I've offered my opinion a number of times that violent crime is caused by a complex combination of socioeconomic, cultural and educational factors, and only when those hard questions are examined and addressed will there be real progress. The tendancy has been to avoid those hard questions and try to go after the easy targets. That's far more show than substance in crime reduction.

Going after guns and legal gun owners does nothing to reduce violent crime, but it does often criminalize things that heretofore were perfectly legal. One ought to try to cure the disease, and not simply attack symptoms.

There's been mention in this thread the fact that the majority of firearms-related deaths in the US are suicides, with the suggestion that there would be fewer suicides if there were fewer guns available. To me that's just another example of failing to focus on the underlying causes of suicide. In Japan and China, which have nearly no firearms in the hands of civilians, the suicide rates are nearly double that of the USA. Apparently, denying the people guns in those countries hasn't kept the suicide rates down.


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