Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

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Stebben84
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:21 pm

Bludgeon wrote:For the record yes this ^ is an accurate representation of the gibberish that is the sad parade of thoughts and images that is the mind of our friend Stebben.


Aside from being a giant fuckwad, what is your experience with the Catholic Church.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby wack wack » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:53 pm

Bludgeon wrote:Let's flip this around and see how valid a use of your time a refutation would be.


So you believe your attempted character assassination of Stebben was a valid use of time?

I asked a very simple question: a or b? 1 or 2? This or that?

In the words of the great Neil Peart: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:46 pm

wack wack wrote:I asked a very simple question: a or b?


A. "Hidden History" = "Not History". Hence the tabloid comparison.

Stebben84
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:39 am

Bludgeon wrote:A. "Hidden History" = "Not History". Hence the tabloid comparison.


I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. First off, the tabloid comparison was silly. What a theologian writes and what a tabloid writes are two different things.

Are you trying to say that history cannot be re-written? We are constantly discovering new things that tell us a different story about history. Archaeologist, scientist, historians, and many others are able to find new clues that give us a better understanding of the past. History itself is absolute. What happened in the past does not change. What changes is our interpretation.

With regard to Catholicism and tradition/rituals, those change as well. The pope sets the agenda and that is based off of his interpretation of the bible. People interpret the bible differently because it is more of a philosophical document than a historical one. It is the only piece of evidence that a person named Jesus even existed. There are also many who believe more books of the bible exist. I find the bible an interesting religious document because it wasn't even written by Jesus himself. Christianity is based solely on others interpretations of an individuals teachings. Now that is ridiculous.

Lastly, a secret is a "hidden history." Does that mean it never happened?

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby wack wack » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:45 am

Bludgeon wrote:
wack wack wrote:I asked a very simple question: a or b?


A. "Hidden History" = "Not History". Hence the tabloid comparison.


That was neither A nor B.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby wack wack » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:49 am

Stebben84 wrote:Lastly, a secret is a "hidden history." Does that mean it never happened?


It means he bought all the history he was taught in grade school hook, line and sinker, and has no idea that much of what he was shown was sanitized and skewed to always make America the hero.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:57 am

wack wack wrote:has no idea that much of what he was shown was sanitized and skewed to always make America the hero.


See Columbus. Also, I suggest Bludge read some Howard Zinn. I realize he is a dirty rotten librul, but he is a pretty well respected and can teach you a thing or two about what "hidden history" really means.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:13 am

Just want to check, Bludgeon, is your argument really denying the possibility that there are things in the Catholic Church's history that have been covered up or kept secret?

Fascinating

Stebben84
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:31 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Just want to check, Bludgeon, is your argument really denying the possibility that there are things in the Catholic Church's history that have been covered up or kept secret?

Fascinating


I thought the Catholic church was an open book. Surely we know everything that is going on in the Vatican. No corruption there. :roll:

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Bludgeon keeps talking out of his ass

Postby Marvell » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:44 am

Bludgeon wrote:
wack wack wrote:I asked a very simple question: a or b?


A. "Hidden History" = "Not History". Hence the tabloid comparison.


"Protestant" = "Snake Handlers". Hence the lack of credibility.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:46 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Just want to check, Bludgeon, is your argument really denying the possibility that there are things in the Catholic Church's history that have been covered up or kept secret?

Fascinating

So the thing in your mind that the Vatican has been "keeping a secret", is that we have had female priests "all along", except for some "evil mysogyinists" who abrubptly stopped the practice in the 11th century, then "buried all the evidence", which nobody has found until this "tabloid scholar", Gary Macy, "unearthed the real truth".

Prior to the 11th century of course they were all "new age" open minded, "equality lovin" progressivists until the great big "progressive purge" of the Middle Ages? They all felt and thought exactly like Rachel Maddow -- correct?

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:12 pm

Bludgeon wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Just want to check, Bludgeon, is your argument really denying the possibility that there are things in the Catholic Church's history that have been covered up or kept secret?

Fascinating

So the thing in your mind that the Vatican has been "keeping a secret", is that we have had female priests "all along", except for some "evil mysogyinists" who abrubptly stopped the practice in the 11th century, then "buried all the evidence", which nobody has found until this "tabloid scholar", Gary Macy, "unearthed the real truth".

Prior to the 11th century of course they were all "new age" open minded, "equality lovin" progressivists until the great big "progressive purge" of the Middle Ages? They all felt and thought exactly like Rachel Maddow -- correct?


I'd have to do more research on that particular subject; I just find your position that the church couldn't possibly be keeping something like this secret to be fucking hilarious. I mean this is the same church that threatened to excommunicate renaissance scientists for discovering our place in the solar system and our genetic history. Also the same church that spent decades that we know about and probably centuries that we will never know about, hiding the depredations of it's clergy upon children.

btw are you at least aware that clergy used be able get married and have families? Hold land and pass down their titles?

Oh, bonus question, do you know how many gospels were written?

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:18 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:btw are you at least aware that clergy used be able get married and have families? Hold land and pass down their titles?


That's "hidden history" so it never existed.

References to the ordination of women exist in papal, episcopal and theological documents of the time, and the rites for these ordinations have survived. Yet, many scholars still hold that women, particularly in the western church, were never "really" ordained. A survey of the literature reveals that most scholars use a definition of ordination that would have been unknown in the early middle ages. Thus, the modern determination that women were never ordained, Macy argues, is a premise based on false terms.


http://anglicanfuture.blogspot.com/2008 ... omens.html

By the way, what's your expertise in Catholicism?

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Mad Howler » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:22 pm

Bludgeon wrote:So, I don't know why people are so worked up to try and revise the doctrine.  For me, if you take away the tradition you lose the real value of worship.  I say, the connection is lost and what we end up doing is imposing what we'd like to call a connection to religious history, that isn't really there.

For me, if some Catholics want gay and female priests they ought to break off like the Orthodox did and just go with a new thing.

What is your game? There has been no discussion of gay or woman priests from this Pontiff.  What there has been is a re-realization of the Vatican II that I grew up with under the guidance of Franciscans. 
Do not take my word for this,
Read the words of those who practice this faith. 
http://ncronline.org/news/theology/fran ... vatican-ii

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:27 pm

Pope Francis issues his mission statement for the Papacy

I like his focus on social justice which is absolutely where any organization purporting to be based on the teachings of Jesus should be focused. On the other hand if he is serious about getting real change from his cardinals, bishops and priests, he should probably put off the decentralization of church power for a bit.


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