Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

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Bludgeon
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:11 am

People get so, so deranged when it comes to doing what they think is moral. Followers, new-age nuts, priests, popes, rabbis, activists, mail men -- you name it. They're ready to do anything and everything in accordance with what they think is 'moral' -- but how do they know what is moral? Their definition and understanding may be compromised, but their readiness to act on that understanding is full bore, ready to go. That's a bad combination in the form of a psychological reaction taking place in the moral minds of 90% of the population, even as we speak: don't quite know what they're talking about, but damn sure ready to do something about it.

Better off if they had an absolute understanding, but only a limited capacity to do something about it. Unfortunately, we're the other way around.

It bothers me how quick 99% of people are to make this cosmic leap from speculation to certainty about things. Because - society organizes itself around which groups believe what. Then you get these united groups convinced around a set of ideals, committed to what's become a cause, and the truth is what we're invested in is much more harm than good.

Atheists are the best people, I think; or I would think, if pretty much the majority of 'non-believers', weren't getting all zealot-ish about it.

I deem Martin Luther was a cunt, and that there was a certain wisdom about not just handing bibles out to everybody to poison their minds with; and the more I talk to evangelists of every stripe, the more I wish we'd preserved that particular tradition. Then fools looking for something to believe in would have to hear it from someone who was at least qualified to tell them.

peripat
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby peripat » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:18 am

Bludgeon wrote: there was a certain wisdom about not just handing bibles out to everybody to poison their minds with; and the more I talk to evangelists of every stripe, the more I wish we'd preserved that particular tradition. Then fools looking for something to believe in would have to hear it from someone who was at least qualified to tell them.


Uff da- you should think about that a little more- mostly they're already getting the interpretation from somebody they feel is qualified to do that- and when you need a priest or an iman as an intermediary between yourself and your god you make that person a demi-god at the very least, with no guarantee that they are saner than their followers (and some indication that they are less because they did, after all, choose that job)

Mad Howler
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Mad Howler » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:26 pm

Bludge,
It seems that you are wrestling with many things we all have/are.
I think I have been clear on this forum that I have come to believe that religion is a brilliant innovation by humans that should not be taken lightly.
Appearantly, I am a member of the second largest 'religious' group in our country - ex catholic. At least this is what I have heard.
My fascination here is that this Pontif, while still very catholic and still very the pope, is finding a way to reach out to everyone from a place of goodness.
We all need more of this,
We all need to practice this habit more.
MH

Bludgeon
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:03 am

Of all the Christians, Orthodox is my first favorite and Catholics are my second. I've never been religious but I admire their dedication to ritual; ritual is actually a very important part of religion for me, because it's a serious expression of a serious faith. Protestants - might as well be witch doctors, and I prefer real Voodoo. If you're going to be dancing with snakes, you might as well be bathing in chicken blood.

So, I don't know why people are so worked up to try and revise the doctrine. For me, if you take away the tradition you lose the real value of worship. I say, the connection is lost and what we end up doing is imposing what we'd like to call a connection to religious history, that isn't really there.

For me, if some Catholics want gay and female priests they ought to break off like the Orthodox did and just go with a new thing.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Marvell » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:34 am

Bludgeon wrote:Protestants - might as well be witch doctors, and I prefer real Voodoo. If you're going to be dancing with snakes, you might as well be bathing in chicken blood.


So 'Protestant' = 'snake handlers?'

That's gonna come as a surprise to the Methodists. And Presbyterians. And Congregationalists. And Mennonites. And Quakers. And Episcopalians.

Any other spasms of ludicrous ignorance you want to get off your chest, Bludge?

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:45 am

Marvell wrote:Any other spasms of ludicrous ignorance you want to get off your chest, Bludge?


Such as this:

Bludgeon wrote:For me, if some Catholics want gay and female priests they ought to break off like the Orthodox did and just go with a new thing.


If you want to talk about tradition, then you should do your research.

The Catholic Church ordained women for nearly 11 centuries before "virulent misogyny" and politics led to theological rules that wiped out the practice, Gary Macy, professor of Theology at Santa Clara University, said in a lecture Monday at Vanderbilt University.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... l6y20G1F8E

I grew up going to Catholic school and going to Catholic mass. I stopped going because I thought they were nuts. After going to a mass a while back for a wedding, I realized that judgement was correct. It's downright creepy. Also, the fundamental tradition of Catholicism is the same, certain other things changed over the years and I can guarantee going to a mass or practicing in 1200 is quite different then it is today.

peripat
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby peripat » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:06 am

It does, however, explain the otherwise inexplicable belief that the motley should not have access to the writings of a religion. I mean, if you let people see what is going on there is no telling what they'll do. I suppose obedience without having to think is comforting to some.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:09 am

Stebben84 wrote:If you want to talk about tradition, then you should do your research.
The Catholic Church ordained women for nearly 11 centuries before "virulent misogyny" and politics led to theological rules that wiped out the practice, Gary Macy, professor of Theology at Santa Clara University, said in a lecture Monday at Vanderbilt University.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... l6y20G1F8E

I grew up going to Catholic school and going to Catholic mass. I stopped going because I thought they were nuts. After going to a mass a while back for a wedding, I realized that judgement was correct. It's downright creepy. Also, the fundamental tradition of Catholicism is the same, certain other things changed over the years and I can guarantee going to a mass or practicing in 1200 is quite different then it is today.

Boy you read almost all garbage. It's amazing the miraculous extent to which you manage somehow to read only what fluff you agree with. That, above, is what you call 'research'? Take it from Gary Macy, author of "The Hidden History of Women’s Ordination".

Funny how progressive history is always 'hidden history' that we dig up and string together with dental floss and pop can tabs, pure anecdotal conjecture and speculative fabrication: just a bunch of partisan nonsense smeared like peanut butter over the bread of well documented history. Then masqueraded around as the genuine article after public exposure to the matters of fact has been conveniently limited.

And here you are, revelling in the steep of your own willful delusions. A prime example of why most people seem to need religion - because at the very least they're better off confining their fanatical superstitions to the realm of theology.

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:19 am

peripat wrote:It does, however, explain the otherwise inexplicable belief that the motley should not have access to the writings of a religion. I mean, if you let people see what is going on there is no telling what they'll do.

There is no telling what they will do.

As a non religious person, one of the things I find most appalling is that unhealthy combination of delirious whimsy and fanatical zeal that people subject their faith to. Again:

"People get so, so deranged when it comes to doing what they think is moral. Followers, new-age nuts, priests, popes, rabbis, activists, mail men -- you name it. They're ready to do anything and everything in accordance with what they think is 'moral' -- but how do they know what is moral? Their definition and understanding may be compromised, but their readiness to act on that understanding is full bore, ready to go. That's a bad combination in the form of a psychological reaction taking place in the moral minds of 90% of the population, even as we speak: don't quite know what they're talking about, but damn sure ready to do something about it.

Better off if they had an absolute understanding, but only a limited capacity to do something about it. Unfortunately, we're the other way around.

It bothers me how quick 99% of people are to make this cosmic leap from speculation to certainty about things. Because - society organizes itself around which groups believe what. Then you get these united groups convinced around a set of ideals, committed to what's become a cause, and the truth is what we're invested in is much more harm than good."

peripat
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby peripat » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:08 am

But still you believe there is some kind of purity in having a high priest of some sort interpret the 'word of god'. I think that is where you get David Koresh, Jim Jones, even L Ron Hubbard who told everyone he was going to start a religion just to show them how it was done...geez

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby wack wack » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:41 am

Bludgeon wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:If you want to talk about tradition, then you should do your research.
The Catholic Church ordained women for nearly 11 centuries before "virulent misogyny" and politics led to theological rules that wiped out the practice, Gary Macy, professor of Theology at Santa Clara University, said in a lecture Monday at Vanderbilt University.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... l6y20G1F8E

I grew up going to Catholic school and going to Catholic mass. I stopped going because I thought they were nuts. After going to a mass a while back for a wedding, I realized that judgement was correct. It's downright creepy. Also, the fundamental tradition of Catholicism is the same, certain other things changed over the years and I can guarantee going to a mass or practicing in 1200 is quite different then it is today.

Boy you read almost all garbage. It's amazing the miraculous extent to which you manage somehow to read only what fluff you agree with. That, above, is what you call 'research'? Take it from Gary Macy, author of "The Hidden History of Women’s Ordination".

Funny how progressive history is always 'hidden history' that we dig up and string together with dental floss and pop can tabs, pure anecdotal conjecture and speculative fabrication: just a bunch of partisan nonsense smeared like peanut butter over the bread of well documented history. Then masqueraded around as the genuine article after public exposure to the matters of fact has been conveniently limited.

And here you are, revelling in the steep of your own willful delusions. A prime example of why most people seem to need religion - because at the very least they're better off confining their fanatical superstitions to the realm of theology.


Just to be clear: are you saying, "Stebben, your facts are incorrect and you are wrong," or are you saying, "Stebben, you are probably correct but I'm going to try to assassinate your character anyway"?

You sure didn't refute anything.

Stebben84
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:54 am

wack wack wrote:Just to be clear: are you saying, "Stebben, your facts are incorrect and you are wrong," or are you saying, "Stebben, you are probably correct but I'm going to try to assassinate your character anyway"?


I think it's just another way for Bludgeon to say progressives are dumb. Bludge says Catholics are a favorite. I would like to know why. As I stated, I grew up being raised Catholic and attended countless masses and other religious classes. After my experience, I can't understand how Catholicism is someones "favorite" who is not themselves religious. Bludgeon, what knowledge do you have with Catholicism and it's history.

peripat
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby peripat » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:06 am

This seems to be the main reason.
Bludgeon wrote: I've never been religious but I admire their dedication to ritual; ritual is actually a very important part of religion for me, because it's a serious expression of a serious faith.
if you take away the tradition you lose the real value of worship.

If ritual is all you are looking for you might as well pick satanism or anything else with a formal ritual that overrides it's ostensible purpose.(Masons, fraternities, anything involving ceremonies, ad infinitum)

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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby penquin » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:47 am

Bludgeon wrote:Funny how progressive history is always 'hidden history' that we dig up and string together with dental floss and pop can tabs, pure anecdotal conjecture and speculative fabrication: just a bunch of partisan nonsense smeared like peanut butter over the bread of well documented history. Then masqueraded around as the genuine article after public exposure to the matters of fact has been conveniently limited.

And here you are, revelling in the steep of your own willful delusions. A prime example of why most people seem to need religion - because at the very least they're better off confining their fanatical superstitions to the realm of theology.


You seem pretty darn, well....certain...of how history actually went down, eh? Which is kinda surprising, given how it bothers you that so many people will quickly make a leap from mere speculation to absolute certainty.

Bludgeon
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Re: Pope Francis keeps talking social justice

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:04 pm

wack wack wrote:
Just to be clear: are you saying, "Stebben, your facts are incorrect and you are wrong," or are you saying, "Stebben, you are probably correct but I'm going to try to assassinate your character anyway"?

You sure didn't refute anything.


Let's flip this around and see how valid a use of your time a refutation would be.

Claim: "Hillary Clinton Adopts Alien Baby Children".

Image
For the record yes this ^ is an accurate representation of the gibberish that is the sad parade of thoughts and images that is the mind of our friend Stebben.

Proceed with your rebuttal. Start by contacting SETI, get hold of Mrs. Clinton's press secretary, trail Chelsea for two weeks trying to get a sample of her DNA, have it tested at a proper lab to make sure it's 100% human, then come back here and tell us your results. I know it's nonsense, but we want a point by point refutation anyway. Cool?


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