The gun thread

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BSH
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:18 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:Gun laws are based on the people's values. In Japan, they value peace. It's a matter of choice, isn't it? Maybe we should change our values and attitudes about guns.

Banning guns in Chicago makes as much sense as banning water in an ocean. You'd have to pull the drain on the ocean (a nationwide ban) before such a ban would be effective, and I think it'd take a decade or so for the results to show up.


Japan/US - gun laws are irrelevant. What's relevant starts with this - Japan has a conviction rate on homicides close to 100%, and a closure rate (a suspect is identified and referred for charges) of over 90%. This is much, much higher than the US. Japan does not have jury trials, and can hold suspects up to 10 days without being charged, questioning them the entire time. Japan has never, ever in its entire history allowed free ownership of guns. You're quite right about the relevance of culture, but US culture is just more violent than others. Japan has more suicide. That's just the way it is.

You are totally misrepresenting the point on Chicago. It was suggested that a blanket ban on possession of guns would reduce homicides and violent crime. Chicago has (had) such a ban. It does not matter that guns are freely available in other jurisdictions; anyone possessing a gun in public in Chicago was subject to arrest. Yet, that law did not serve to reduce homicides and violence. A Chicago resident could legally buy all the guns they want downstate, but carrying one of them openly in Chicago would have got them thrown in jail. That law was a failure in reducing homicides and violent crime. Gun laws don't make a difference.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:59 am

Gun laws are irrelevant? Are you crazy? How did Japan convict people guilty of gun homicide? When you have 5 gun homicides a year, what are the chances of a 100% conviction rate as opposed to the 11,000 gun homicides per year here?

It "doesn't matter" that guns are available nearby? Could you possibly try to use common sense and logic when you make that argument?

The ban went into effect in 1985 when Chicago had about 650 gun homicides a year. They peaked at about 930 in 1992 and 1994, but dropped down to 450 by 2004. There has been a slight uptick since the Supreme Court banned the Chicago ban in 2010.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:36 pm

...US culture is just more violent than others. Japan has more suicide.


So our laws should enable and further our tendency toward violence, instead of making it more difficult and more likely to result in conviction and significant penalty?

Maybe we should do the same thing with rape, since we have way more rape than Japan. How about first-time rapists having to take a class, like with drunk driving?
Last edited by snoqueen on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

penquin
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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:27 pm

One of the big reasons Japan doesn't see as much gun violence in the streets is because their organized crime families/gangs are legal & regulated. (Yes, that sounds really weird. Check out this Wiki for more details). Because of that legal status, they tend to negotiate things between each other more-so than American gangs will....but when they do fight it out in the streets it is with hand grenades rather than firearms.

That aside, here in the USofA most shootings in the street are directly connected to the illegal drug trade. If ya really want to see a reduction in gun violence then ya need to stop voting for politicians that support the War on Drugs.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:31 pm

penquin wrote:...here in the USofA most shootings in the street are directly connected to the illegal drug trade. If ya really want to see a reduction in gun violence then ya need to stop voting for politicians that support the War on Drugs.

+1

The same thing held true during alcohol prohibition.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:55 am

Concealed carry permit holders shoot it out on a Milwaukee freeway

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that Adamany told the cops that Scott "mean mugged" him and flashed a black handgun, prompting him to flash his own.

The driver sped away, with Admany in pursuit firing away while Scott squeezed off rounds toward the pursuing vehicle from the car window, holding the gun over his shoulder with his right hand while steering with his left. The chase ended when Adamany shot out all four tires of the fleeing car and both shooters contacted a couple of the many officers who had saturated the area.

Adamany subsequently told TMJ4 in Milwaukee that the other driver pulled up and fired a bullet into his sideview mirror, which started the running gun battle. He said he picked up his gun and pursued the attacker because Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke recently urged citizens to arm themselves against criminals.


So who is the good guy here?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:03 pm

Getting a little slow on your web browsing Henry

Henry Vilas wrote:So who is the good guy here?


Clearly Sheriff Clarke who wants us all to arm up and take over since his department is run by an incompetent idiot and might not be able to do it's job.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:07 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Concealed carry permit holders shoot it out on a Milwaukee freeway

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that Adamany told the cops that Scott "mean mugged" him and flashed a black handgun, prompting him to flash his own.

The driver sped away, with Admany in pursuit firing away while Scott squeezed off rounds toward the pursuing vehicle from the car window, holding the gun over his shoulder with his right hand while steering with his left. The chase ended when Adamany shot out all four tires of the fleeing car and both shooters contacted a couple of the many officers who had saturated the area.

Adamany subsequently told TMJ4 in Milwaukee that the other driver pulled up and fired a bullet into his sideview mirror, which started the running gun battle. He said he picked up his gun and pursued the attacker because Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke recently urged citizens to arm themselves against criminals.


So who is the good guy here?


As far as I know only one of the individuals has been charged with a crime, so that might be a clue.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby HawkHead » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:22 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Concealed carry permit holders shoot it out on a Milwaukee freeway

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that Adamany told the cops that Scott "mean mugged" him and flashed a black handgun, prompting him to flash his own.

The driver sped away, with Admany in pursuit firing away while Scott squeezed off rounds toward the pursuing vehicle from the car window, holding the gun over his shoulder with his right hand while steering with his left. The chase ended when Adamany shot out all four tires of the fleeing car and both shooters contacted a couple of the many officers who had saturated the area.

Adamany subsequently told TMJ4 in Milwaukee that the other driver pulled up and fired a bullet into his sideview mirror, which started the running gun battle. He said he picked up his gun and pursued the attacker because Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke recently urged citizens to arm themselves against criminals.


So who is the good guy here?


As far as I know only one of the individuals has been charged with a crime, so that might be a clue.


So are you saying the other gunman, who wasn't charged, is a good guy?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:36 pm

HawkHead wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:As far as I know only one of the individuals has been charged with a crime, so that might be a clue.


So are you saying the other gunman, who wasn't charged, is a good guy?



Don't be silly, that guy is black, he can't be the good guy, he's just the slightly less bad guy.


Just kidding, they both seem to be fucking idiots.

I think the only reason one is being charged and not the other is that they have no idea who shot first, but Adamany let the police know he was driving recklessly.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:42 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:I think the only reason one is being charged and not the other is that they have no idea who shot first


So is it legal now to fire guns outside your car window? They both said they fired weapons.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby jman111 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:46 pm

They were defending their "castles".

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:48 pm

Stebben84 wrote:So is it legal now to fire guns outside your car window? They both said they fired weapons.


Not that I'm aware of, but it's definitly illegal to dial your phone and fire a gun out the window while speeding down the highway, and since idiot #1 actually offered that information freely, there's no reason not to file charges on that issue. Further charges may still be pending, while they actually try to figure out wtf actually happened.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby HawkHead » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:48 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:I think the only reason one is being charged and not the other is that they have no idea who shot first


So is it legal now to fire guns outside your car window? They both said they fired weapons.


That's my point exactly. Both men took innocent bystanders lives into their hands by wildly firing out their speeding cars window. Discharging a firearm like that needs to be a punishable offense.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
HawkHead wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:As far as I know only one of the individuals has been charged with a crime, so that might be a clue.


So are you saying the other gunman, who wasn't charged, is a good guy?



Don't be silly, that guy is black, he can't be the good guy, he's just the slightly less bad guy.



Just kidding, they both seem to be fucking idiots.

I think the only reason one is being charged and not the other is that they have no idea who shot first, but Adamany let the police know he was driving recklessly.


Probably another good time to let some investigation and facts come out before jumping to too many conclusions.

I have plenty of hearsay on what happened but if I repeat it here I'll have to warn you that's all it is at this point. But the sources seem reasonably reliable.

But needless to say, if you are chasing a car and shooting at it while it is trying to get away, you better have a pretty damn good explanation why you think you can do that.


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