The gun thread

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Henry Vilas
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:23 am

BSH wrote: I posted a policy fact - that police have no legal obligation to defend the lives and safety of the people...

Could you quote that supposed "policy fact" as I didn't see it in the report you cited?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby O.J. » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:30 am

Augustus Busch IV, a former staunch supporter of the NRA, quits the group because of its recent movement away from supporting its members, towards unblinking support for gun manufacturers.

I am simply unable to comprehend how assault weapons and large capacity magazines have a role in your vision. The NRA I see today has undermined the values upon which it was established. Your current strategic focus places a priority on the needs of gun and ammunition manufacturers while disregarding the opinions of your 4 million individual members.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:07 am

Stebben84 wrote:So are you suggesting we arm up with high capacity weapons as a defense against the police?


I won't speak for the original author, but I think it is a good idea to have a weapon in the home for when the police say "We ain't gonna be there, so you're on your own"

Henry Vilas wrote:Could you quote that supposed "policy fact" as I didn't see it in the report you cited?


Warren v District of Columbia (1981) established that the police do not have a legal requirement to provide protection to anyone, unless a "special relationship" already existed.
Last edited by penquin on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:18 am, edited 3 times in total.

Henry Vilas
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 am

I guess that means the Boston area police had a special relationship with the local residents.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:27 am

Henry Vilas wrote:I guess that means the Boston area police had a special relationship with the local residents.


Whatever leads you to "guess" that? Are there lawsuits pending against the Boston PD for failing to protect those who were hurt/killed in the bombing attacks?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:34 am

Despite the case you cited from 1981 (which does not set precedent throughout the U.S.), do you really believe that the police won't respond to violent crimes?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:44 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Despite the case you cited from 1981 (which does not set precedent throughout the U.S.), do you really believe that the police won't respond to violent crimes?


To each & every violent crime? No, I don't beleive they will always be there when needed. Do you?

And do you really beleive that the police have a legal obligation to protect you and yours? If so, can you please cite something (other than your personal "guess") that leads you to think as such? Has there been a successful lawsuit against a police department for not protecting a citizen from a violent crime?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby doppel » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:48 am

Henry Vilas wrote:"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

Henry Vilas
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:07 am

penquin wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Despite the case you cited from 1981 (which does not set precedent throughout the U.S.), do you really believe that the police won't respond to violent crimes?


To each & every violent crime? No, I don't beleive they will always be there when needed. Do you?

And do you really beleive that the police have a legal obligation to protect you and yours?

Again, the court case you cited only applies to the District of Columbia. Paranoids keep AK-47s because they think they need to repel the bad guys.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:13 am

BSH wrote:There's no basis for agreeing on what is "sensible" or "reasonable."

80-90 % of Americans support background checks on guns sales. That's probably a pretty good definition of reasonable.

BSH wrote:You think a ban on scary-looking rifles is sensible.

Please refrain from distorting or misrepresenting my views. It makes you appear even more of a dick.
When you said
BSH wrote:I think a ban on weapons used in 1% (or less) of homicides is absurd and unjustifiable.

did you really mean
a straw man representation of BSH wrote:I am emotionally indifferent to the mass slaughter in Newtown.

?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:15 am

BSH wrote:DCB - yes, that NIJ report, but also the one that they did studying the effects of the 1994 ban, where they found no measurable effect.

citation, please.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:20 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Again, the court case you cited only applies to the District of Columbia.


And again, I ask: Has there been any successful lawsuits against a police department for not protecting a citizen from a violent crime?

DCB wrote:80-90 % of Americans support background checks on guns sales.


I think a lot of folks support background checks in general, but are unaware of what can lead to someone being put on The List.

For instance, Henry is a strong supporter of gun control but I don't think he knows that is it illegal for him personally to purchase/possess a firearm.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:24 am

penquin wrote:For instance, Henry is a strong supporter of gun control but I don't think he knows that is it illegal for him personally to purchase/possess a firearm.

For instance, you don't know shit. I was a member of the Junior NRA when I was in high school. I've owned a firearm for over 50 years.

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Re: The gun thread

Postby penquin » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:34 am

Henry Vilas wrote:For instance, you don't know shit.


I may not know as much about fecal matter as you do, but I do know that it is "illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or she is 'an unlawful user of, or addicted to' marijuana or other controlled substances."

link

I've owned a firearm for over 50 years.


Did you use any illegal substances in those past 50 years? Do you still?

If so, I ain't saying that makes you a bad person....but it does mean that it was/is illegal for you to have a firearm.

Which one are you gonna give up...the pipe or the gun? Or neither?

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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:37 am

penquin wrote:but are unaware of what can lead to someone being put on The List.


What the fuck is The List.


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