The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

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Detritus
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Detritus » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:04 pm


Huckleby
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:43 pm

The post-verdict statements by the defense attorneys were shocking. Insensitive & inflammatory, dishonest. These guys are apes. The verdict was unsurprising, but it did not prove that Trayvon Williams was a violent criminal, and that George Zimmerman was a fine citizen victimized by the media.

Horrible.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ned Flanders » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:11 pm

Amazingly, the jury was brave and able to ascertain the obvious after the usual suspects, Obama/Holder/Sharpton/Jackson, attempted to ignite a race war. Shameful.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:43 pm

Huckleby wrote: The verdict was unsurprising, but it did not prove that Trayvon Williams was a violent criminal


Perhaps we will see about that. If any jury members come forward and say they acquitted simply because they had reasonable doubts, then I agree with you. But if they say they believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense, then basically they've found that Trayvon was acting as a violent criminal and died in the commission of a crime.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:47 pm

Dangerousman wrote: if they say they believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense, then basically they've found that Trayvon was acting as a violent criminal and died in the commission of a crime.



I'd say the very fact that they were asking about manslaughter makes that seem unlikely.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:53 pm

Dangerousman wrote: Perhaps we will see about that. If any jury members come forward and say they acquitted simply because they had reasonable doubts, then I agree with you. But if they say they believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense, then basically they've found that Trayvon was acting as a violent criminal and died in the commission of a crime.


Anybody, juror or otherwise, who concludes that Martin acted as a violent criminal, based on the shaky evidence from that dark night is certainly a fool and possibly a racist.

Only Zimmerman really knows what happened.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:56 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: if they say they believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense, then basically they've found that Trayvon was acting as a violent criminal and died in the commission of a crime.



I'd say the very fact that they were asking about manslaughter makes that seem unlikely.


Why?

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:57 pm

BTW, the prosecutors were classless in their public statements too. Not as incendiary as the defense, but oddly confrontational.

Only the MArtin family & personal attorneys showed grace and humility.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:59 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: Perhaps we will see about that. If any jury members come forward and say they acquitted simply because they had reasonable doubts, then I agree with you. But if they say they believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense, then basically they've found that Trayvon was acting as a violent criminal and died in the commission of a crime.


Anybody, juror or otherwise, who concludes that Martin acted as a violent criminal, based on the shaky evidence from that dark night is certainly a fool and possibly a racist.

Only Zimmerman really knows what happened.


Oh you believe that the "shaky evidence from that dark night" ought to have been sufficient to convict Zimmerman of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt?

Well, like it or not, if they conclude Zimmerman acted in self-defense they've necessarily concluded that Martin was acting in a criminal manner, because that's when you are allowed to act in self-defense.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:01 am

Huckleby wrote:BTW, the prosecutors were classless in their public statements too. Not as incendiary as the defense, but oddly confrontational.

Only the MArtin family & personal attorneys showed grace and humility.


I caught only part of the defense attorney's statement. What did they say that you regard as incendiary?

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:06 am

Dangerousman wrote: I caught only part of the defense attorney's statement. What did they say that you regard as incendiary?


One attorney said the trial would have been different had Zimmerman been black. The other attorney (the really dumb one) said that Zimmerman was a victim of a travesty. (At the very end, he tried to walk that back.) They played-up Zimmerman as noble citizen, victimized by a violent youth. None of this is proved or provable, just not necessary to go there. No acknowledgement that Martin did not deserve to be killed. VEry disrespectful, just awful.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:13 am

Dangerousman wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: if they say they believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense, then basically they've found that Trayvon was acting as a violent criminal and died in the commission of a crime.



I'd say the very fact that they were asking about manslaughter makes that seem unlikely.


Why?


Because it means they were not thinking he acted in self defense, but didn't find enough evidence to prove guilt on either charge. There's no logical reason to consider manslaughter if you think the defendant was trying to protect him own life. Since they asked questions about manslaughter, one would have to assume they were considering it. As you stated, we won't really know unless one of the jurists speaks.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:14 am

Dangerousman wrote:Oh you believe that the "shaky evidence from that dark night" ought to have been sufficient to convict Zimmerman of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt?


No, I think the case for manslaughter was there, but marginal.
The law was really on Zimmerman's side, even though he was pretty plainly in the wrong, from a moral and common sense perspective.

Zimmerman caused Trayvon Martin's death with his bizarre behavior. But he is not convictable.

Dangerousman wrote:Well, like it or not, if they conclude Zimmerman acted in self-defense they've necessarily concluded that Martin was acting in a criminal manner, because that's when you are allowed to act in self-defense.

Huh!?
I don't think you get that the burden is on the prosecution to prove that Zimmerman's life was not threatened. The evidence either way was scant.
Last edited by Huckleby on Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:17 am

Huckleby wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: I caught only part of the defense attorney's statement. What did they say that you regard as incendiary?


One attorney said the trial would have been different had Zimmerman been black. The other attorney (the really dumb one) said that Zimmerman was a victim of a travesty. (At the very end, he tried to walk that back.) They played-up Zimmerman as noble citizen, victimized by a violent youth. None of this is proved or provable, just not necessary to go there. No acknowledgement that Martin did not deserve to be killed. VEry disrespectful, just awful.


Hah, that "really dumb one" came out on top. I heard those statements and of COURSE they are not going to say that Martin didn't deserve to die. They didn't say he deserved to die either. The basically said it was too bad his behavior that night resulted in his death, which was tragic. They certainly did not celebrate his death, and no right-thinking person would do that. Killing someone in self-defense is not cause for celebration, it's just unfortunately necessary at times. It's sort of like having a gangrenous limb removed. Not pleasant, but preferable to letting it kill you.

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:20 am

Dangerousman wrote: The basically said it was too bad his behavior that night resulted in his death, which was tragic.


They did not prove this and should not have stated it as fact.

The attorney's don't know what happened.

Like you, they make no acknowledgement of Zimmerman's awful choices and behavior.

Better to just take a humble position than to be casting blame.
Last edited by Huckleby on Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.


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