Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

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jonnygothispen
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Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:15 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... demic.html
'Moses was high on hallucinogenic drug when he received Ten Commandments,' claims top academic
The professor, who came up with his theory after experiencing firsthand the effects of a hallucinogenic brew used in religious rituals in Brazil, said the story of Moses and the burning bush also had the hallmarks of a psychedelic experience.
How else can you explain the nonsense in the Bible?

Petro
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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Petro » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:28 pm

I'll poke fun at the bible pretty much anytime.

That article is from the Daily Mail, though. They really don't let reality get in the way of a good story.

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:51 pm

Sounds like parts of the Bible and the Daily Mail were made for each other then : )

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby bcs89 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:02 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:Sounds like parts of the Bible and the Daily Mail were made for each other then : )



Not mention the Koran, eh?

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:15 pm

The Koran and the Bible are nearly the same to me.

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:07 pm

While I have no doubt that hallucinogenic drugs have been involved in religious ceremonies and personal epiphanies since at least the time the Bible was written, it's worth remembering that it's pretty difficult to prove "what really happened" to someone who is almost assuredly a fictional character. Or maybe it's really easy. Hmmm... it's a sorta Möbius strip approach to history, I suppose. I think I'm gonna go work on my thesis now, "What really happened to Captain Ahab?" The answer may surprise you.

Tantalizing Hint: It wasn't a whale what et his leg!

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby bcs89 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:14 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:The Koran and the Bible are nearly the same to me.


Couldn't agree more, hence my post - now, the hot blue Hindu chick with all the arms on the other hand.. :wink:

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:53 am

jonnygothispen wrote:How else can you explain the nonsense in the Bible?


High on drugs? Sounds plausible.

And what's your excuse?

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:55 am

Hey, it's his natural right.

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:55 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Hey, it's his natural right.


I suppose. If you actually believe in such things.

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:50 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Hey, it's his natural right.

I suppose. If you actually believe in such things.

Of course I do. First Amendment rights are universal and inalienable. A similar case can be made for the ingestion of natural substances. Toting a firearm around in public, not so much. Even you agree with that, in that you would agree to a possession ban for the violently crazy, thus making it neither universal nor inalienable. And please don't bring up time, place and manner restrictions, as they apply to all rights, natural or not.

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby bcs89 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:22 pm

nevermind

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby kurt_w » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:42 pm

Once, a long time ago when I was working on a civil engineering project in the Middle East, I happened to take a couple of days off for sightseeing with some colleagues. Among the places we went to was Gebel Musa (جبل موسى, "Moses Mountain" in Arabic), the mountain commonly associated with biblical Mt Sinai. The mountain, and the tiny Orthodox monastery of St Katherine at its feet, were a pretty spooky place.

To get there you gradually left civilization behind and wended your way into this tangled, remote wilderness -- sort of a knot of barren, steep, rocky mountains all huddled together (I think it's a ring dike, for the geologically inclined). The land felt bizarrely empty, and must have been even more so in Moses's day, before the monastery was built.

The mountaintops there were bright, airy, very dry, and very silent places. If you were hungry and/or thirsty enough, you probably wouldn't need any hallucinogens to start having visions.

There's some uncertainty about whether Gebel Musa is the "real" mountain referred to in the OT ( הר סיני, Har Sinai in Hebrew). It was originally believed to be a different mountain nearby (Gebel Serbal). It's also supposed to be the highest mountain, which would be Gebel Katherîna, also in the same cluster of peaks. But the local Bedouin claimed that Gebel Musa was the real thing, and that's where the Orthodox monks decided to build their monastery, so nowadays Gebel Musa gets marketed as being the "true" Mt Sinai.

Over the past 20 years, a "city" of ~5000 people has apparently been constructed around the monastery, complete with paved highways, tourist village, a bank, places to buy stuff, etc., all fed by water piped across the desert from the Nile.

The area still has strange effects on people. Anwar Sadat was fond of the region, and had a vacation home there. After the peace agreement with Israel, Sadat personally granted permission for the Belgian artist Jean Verame to construct some "landscape art" in a wadi (dry valley) west of the mountain, as a way to commemorate the peace accord. Verame basically painted a bunch of huge boulders with blue paint, claiming that the color blue was symbolic of peace, or something like that. (Wikipedia reports that he received a grant of ten tons of blue paint).

As I said, even for those not religiously inclined nor under the influence of chemical hallucinogens, it's a strange kind of place .....

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:35 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Hey, it's his natural right.

I suppose. If you actually believe in such things.

Of course I do. First Amendment rights are universal and inalienable. A similar case can be made for the ingestion of natural substances. Toting a firearm around in public, not so much. Even you agree with that, in that you would agree to a possession ban for the violently crazy, thus making it neither universal nor inalienable. And please don't bring up time, place and manner restrictions, as they apply to all rights, natural or not.


Henry, I know you're have a difficult time grasping this. You seem to think that an inalienable and universal right cannot be violated. It can. Even you suggested there would be circumstances when you would violate that natural right to free speech.

Let me put it this way. The law of gravity applies universally. But if you were hanging over a cliff, grasping my hand, the law of gravity would not be changed by my choice of whether to hold you or let you go.

My willingness to violate a natural right to bear arms under certain circumstances is not one bit different than your willingness to violate a natural right to free speech under certain circumstances.

Personally, I believe that ultimately the concept of "natural rights" is a fiction, but it was used as a basis for the Constitution. So I made my argument from the perspective of the framers of the Constitution. I believe the universe is, in reality, morally neutral; and that all values are reducible to aesthetic (and subjective) values only.

That ought to give your philosophy-minored self something to mull over. Have fun with it and be careful out there.

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Re: Moses "high" when he found the 10 commandments

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:39 pm

kurt_w wrote:bright, airy, very dry, and very silent place

Sounds like the region between Hank's ears.


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