Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.
jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4710
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:16 pm

exPatBearla wrote: The only solution is a large scale robust, proactive social support/intervention program and wealth redistribution along with education and, most importantly, jobs. In the current political climate in the USA, what's the likelihood of that happening? Thought so. So be prepared for more of the same, in increasing frequency and more retaliatory gestapo-like police tactics in an ever increasing cycle of violence.

Looks like the chickens are coming home to roost.
It's also true that people who feel they're slighted by society, or those who actually have been, can choose to not turn to crime, can take advantage of the college grant system available to them, and do something else with their lives instead of "hatin" and blaming other people for it.

They can choose to become part of the solution instead of creating more problems... Although crime always goes up with a lack of jobs, I think it's more a problem of choice with poverty as an escalator, and racism used as an excuse.

Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:33 pm

narcoleptish wrote:As far as vigilantism goes, I wouldn't want to see any kind of weapon pulled out by either side in something like this, but if some guys walking nearby had run up and pounded the snot out of these shitbags, I would want to buy them a beer. (the pounders, not the shitbags)


So, you're not opposed to violence per se, you're just selective about the means of administering it.

Interesting outlook.

bcs89
Forum Addict
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:10 pm

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby bcs89 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:07 pm

exPatBearla wrote:And now small towns and communities across the midwest are forced (or will be) to deal with the failures of the big cities...


..So be prepared for more of the same, in increasing frequency and more retaliatory gestapo-like police tactics in an ever increasing cycle of violence.

Looks like the chickens are coming home to roost.




Yes, I agree. This is one of the multitude of burdens we, as mid-westerners, have to bear - our well deserved rep of "gestapo-like" police. I know when I travel, and the inevitable "so, where are you from?" question happens - it always ends the same - I say "Madison, WI", and everyone with in earshot backs away.

Our reputation as jack booted thugs precedes us..

(then they ask how many cows I own, go figure)

scratch
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 829
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby scratch » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:42 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
narcoleptish wrote:As far as vigilantism goes, I wouldn't want to see any kind of weapon pulled out by either side in something like this, but if some guys walking nearby had run up and pounded the snot out of these shitbags, I would want to buy them a beer. (the pounders, not the shitbags)


So, you're not opposed to violence per se, you're just selective about the means of administering it.

Interesting outlook.


Ah, Dangerousman, I see the point you're making and I agree with you to an extent, but I think the outlook that many bring to a comment like Narco's might be that while some payback, perhaps including physical violence, is deserved in situations like this, they'd like to stop short of shooting the malefactors. But once one starts down the road of violence for retribution or imposing discipline it's hard to know where and how far things are likely to devolve.

Dangerousman
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:02 pm

scratch wrote:Ah, Dangerousman, I see the point you're making and I agree with you to an extent, but I think the outlook that many bring to a comment like Narco's might be that while some payback, perhaps including physical violence, is deserved in situations like this, they'd like to stop short of shooting the malefactors. But once one starts down the road of violence for retribution or imposing discipline it's hard to know where and how far things are likely to devolve.


To me violence, in itself, is neither good nor evil. It is a morally neutral fact of nature. One that is often subjected to our all-too-human viewpoints. Violence that meets our approval, we declare to be good, and violence we don't like is declared to be evil. A lion ripping the throat of a gazelle is good from the lion's perspective and bad from the gazelle's perspective. Humans wouldn't normally impose any moral judgment on what transpires between lions and gazelles. Although, oddly, it's a one-way street for what transpires between a man and a lion. Few people would regard a lion that tears a man apart as morally evil, but quite a few people might believe that a man shooting a lion for sport, or even keeping one in captivity, is an evil act.

In the discussion of doing a little "payback" against city park small-time hoodlums I think where we get into danger is thinking of it as something they "deserve." I know, psychologically, it is very difficult to overcome the desire for revenge and payback. It seems to have become very engrained in our species over time. But if we could become like gazelles in our outlook-- gazelles with shotguns that is-- we wouldn't use violence because the "attacking lion deserves a little payback" but simply because the violence might put an end to the attacks.

The idea of "stopping short of shooting the malefactors" doesn't not seem like a very well-thought-out concept to me. It isn't like shooting a person is necessarily the highest, or even a higher level of violence. In terms of outright violence there is no set scale. It's a very sliding scale as I see it. Shooting a person may be relatively non-violent compared to repeatedly stomping a person's face in with a boot. That's why I say the issue, if there is one, ought not to be with the tools of violence used, it's with the violence itself. Or more specifically, it is with the motive for the violence.

My friend "Fritz" wrote, "Distrust all in whom the urge to punish is powerful." I think we all feel a bit of embarrassment if we look deep inside ourselves and think about what he meant.

narcoleptish
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4093
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:44 pm

I feel no embarrassment at all. Eventually picking the wrong guy to mess with is exactly what these guys deserve. They're just a more extreme version of schoolyard bullies, traveling in packs and picking out victims that they're pretty sure they can take. I think most of the robbery aspect is just a crime of convenience after someone is incapacitated.

Unfortunately the proliferation of guns, not to mention a rash of stabbings around here lately, makes engaging in a good old fashioned fistfight more of a risk than it used to be.

jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4710
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:05 pm

Violence is the result of conflict. Conflict is the result of strong, opposing and stubborn views clashing. The clashing of strong opposing views is the result of extreme anger or the lack of wisdom to avoid it. Hence, instigating violence is not good. Rather, it shows a lack of self control and/or lack of intellect.

narcoleptish
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4093
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby narcoleptish » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:45 am

One of the many conceits of human beings is that we can always rise above (if you want to call it that) the instincts that nature stuck us with.

scratch
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 829
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby scratch » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:56 am

So far the moral imperative I'm taking from this discussion is to stop hanging out with gazelles. Unless they're packing.

narcoleptish
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4093
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby narcoleptish » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:32 am

But don't they always run in packs?

I guess it's a herd if you're the hunted and a pack if you're hunting. But if they're packing they're probably not herding. So to speak.

jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4710
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:12 pm

There's a difference between recognizing what's healthy for you, and working towards that goal, and a conceit.

Sir Dangler has determined that the use of guns might keep him alive, which naturally means he believes that's preferable to not being alive. Other than from natural causes or by accident, interpersonal violence is the next cause of death. Even though he wouldn't admit it in his zeal to promote guns, he clearly understands that violence is generally not good.

Uncle Fester
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby Uncle Fester » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:14 am

"Easy Targets"

The teenager told police that his black flash mob targeted whites at the fair. Reported the Monitor, he “confirmed witness statements suggesting that the large group of black teens, who had originally fought among themselves, specifically targeted white people as they spilled out of the large fairgrounds on the outskirts of Milwaukee at closing time. According to the West Allis police, he said he personally picked out white people because they were "easy targets."
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/cr ... es-charges

pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7157
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby pjbogart » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:21 pm

Wow, Fester. Thanks for that enlightening story from the fine institution of "The New American." Thank the Lord that we aren't forced to read the kind of liberal clap-trap coming out of 99.9% of news media today.

Another interesting article from "The New American" warns that if Democrats get their way, someday an "Anchor Baby" might become President.

Senator Durbin: An Illegal Alien Could Become President

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) the leftist majority leader from the President’s corrupt home state, believes the United States may soon abandon the Constitution’s requirement that the President be a natural-born citizen of the United States.

If Durbin believes the remarks he made during a hearing of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees and Border Security on his renewed DREAM Act, the massive amnesty bill for illegal-alien children, then the requirement is no longer necessary.


I wondered what made you such a hateful old coot, but now I know. Perhaps you need to change your reading habits.

Uncle Fester
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby Uncle Fester » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:22 pm

West Allis police said the 16-year-old boy told them he and other African-American juveniles beat up white people because they were "easy targets."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/127902613.html

Police said he told investigators he chose whites because he considered them “easy targets.”

On opening night of the fair, 31 people were arrested and at least 11 people were hurt. The West Allis Police Department has said race was a factor in the 11 violent incidents that it’s investigating. The State Fair has stepped up security since the attacks.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/701 ... ed-suspect

Wisconsin police say a mob attack at the Wisconsin State Fair was racially motivated. One teen arrested Wednesday said he deliberately targeted white fairgoers because they were 'easy targets.'

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/20 ... me-charges

West Allis police are continuing to investigate the violence that started in the midway on the evening of Aug. 4 when fights broke out among black youths. Those fights did not appear to be racially motivated. Around the fair's 11 p.m. closing time, dozens to hundreds of black youths attacked white fairgoers as they left the grounds.
http://www.westallisnow.com/news/cninews/127540883.html

etc.

Happy now?

pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7157
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: Racist attack @ Milwaukee State Fair

Postby pjbogart » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:28 pm

Not really, Fester. See, you don't seem to realize when you're being tricked. The victims were white. The assailants were black. The assailants claim they chose their victims because they were "easy targets." Therefore black people think white people are "easy targets."

Do you see where you made the jump and how the conservative propaganda machine played on racism and fear to make you angry and afraid?

No? I didn't think so.


Return to “Headlines”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests