Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

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thebookpolice
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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby thebookpolice » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:45 am

Jesus, Harris. You sure do backslide awfully quickly.

No, I don't support parents smoking around their children. I don't support smoking at all. I think it's unhealthy, dirty, needlessly expensive, and aesthetically unpleasant.

But there are a boatload of choices parents can and do make for their children--or that affect their children--that I'd find nearly as distasteful, that I don't think should be outlawed by any governmental entity.

The judicially-upheld right to privacy protects adults' right to make decisions in their households freely, so long as they don't violate existing law. This includes bad decisions.

Basic civics teaches that my right to swing my fist in the air ends at your nose. So too does the right to smoke in enclosed public spaces. But as long as smoking remains legal in any aspects--even if it is illegal in others--it will be protected as an activity persons of age may engage in in the privacy of their own home.

I can't believe I just typed all this out to satisfy your ridiculously pedantic ass.

PopeyeTheSailorman
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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby PopeyeTheSailorman » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:09 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:No, I don't support parents smoking around their children...


Man, that was like pulling teeth to get you to answer my question. But thank you for your answer.

Here is my argument:

Smoking in bars is banned because second hand smoke endangers people's health. Therefore, we have established that exposing others to second hand smoke is a danger to their health. It is illegal to knowingly and deliberately endanger your children. Exposing your children to second smoke is endangering them, therefore, it is illegal to expose your children to second hand smoke.

You tell me where the flaw in my logic is, TheBookPolice.

Since you are a rabid anti-smoker I am surprised that you would not be in favor of my proposal notwithstanding my motivations for making it.
Last edited by PopeyeTheSailorman on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mean Scenester
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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Mean Scenester » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:16 pm

Popeye, you're either being deliberately disingenuous or you're really fucking dumb. I'm fine with either explanation, honestly.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby thebookpolice » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:25 pm

PopeyeTheSailorman wrote:Smoking in bars is banned because second hand smoke endangers people's health.

Almost. End that sentence with "...and people over the age of consent should have a choice as to whether or not they want to expose themselves to self-injurious but legal substances." The rest of your silliness is moot and, well, silly.

Since you are a rapid anti-smoker

It's a marathon, not a sprint. I've been a nonsmoker my entire life.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby PopeyeTheSailorman » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:34 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:Popeye, you're either being deliberately disingenuous or you're really fucking dumb. I'm fine with either explanation, honestly.


Reasonable people can disagree on this issue Mean Scenester. Your juvenile insults are uncalled for and make you look foolish. You would not need to resort to personal insults if you had a strong argument.

Have a good day.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:44 pm

Taverns are places of public accommodation, while a home is private. There is a difference (as TBP pointed out). Making laws concerning places open to the public is much different that making laws concerning private behavior in one's own home.

Some people just don't get it.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby boston_jeff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:56 pm

I mean as long as food isn't being served and children aren't present all bets are off, right? Because choosing to drink alcohol has a direct effect on the public health within the confines of a tavern. Same as second-hand smoke, right? Apples and apples.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby PopeyeTheSailorman » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:47 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Taverns are places of public accommodation, while a home is private. There is a difference (as TBP pointed out). Making laws concerning places open to the public is much different that making laws concerning private behavior in one's own home.

Some people just don't get it.


Yes, you don't get it Henry because the smoking ban also applies to private clubs which are not places of public accommodation.

Also, is it illegal to abuse your children in a place of public accommodation but ok if it is done in the privacy of your home?

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby thebookpolice » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:09 pm

PopeyeTheSailorman wrote:the smoking ban also applies to private clubs which are not places of public accommodation.

Also, is it illegal to abuse your children in a place of public accommodation but ok if it is done in the privacy of your home?

Make it stop.

Smoking: a legal activity prohibited by law in enclosed spaces accessible to the public.

(Let's compare that to nudity: a legal state of being prohibited by law in certain spaces accessible to the public. Got beef with that distinction?)

Child abuse: an illegal activity, which means it's illegal regardless of location.

I'm not sure where the disconnect is here.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby boston_jeff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:17 pm

these two are both obv trolls...

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Mean Scenester » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:25 pm

PopeyeTheSailorman wrote:Reasonable people can disagree on this issue Mean Scenester.

Great. Find me a reasonable person with your same ridiculous take on this then. Betcha can't!

Your juvenile insults are uncalled for and make you look foolish.

Yeah, well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

You would not need to resort to personal insults if you had a strong argument.

But what if I have a strong argument and want to look foolish? Granted, it's not a need, but once I make up my mind I want something it's pretty hard to convince me otherwise.

So, in closing, you're a disingenuous douchebucket.


(Man, who knew foolish could feel so damn good?!)

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:31 pm

Arguing about the smoking ban with Harris?
Attempting to get Carol not to toss around the Nazi label?
Blues and Schick together in the same thread!?

What year is this?

Popeye wrote: It is illegal to knowingly and deliberately endanger your children.

Wait... What? Since when?
Your argument kinda breaks down here, since this is simply not true. Why would you even say something so obviously wrong?

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:59 pm

I'm just lurking on this thread for the most part and I find it utterly amusing.

It's like arguing if Superman could kick Batman's ass. It's going no where but fun to watch the train wreck nonetheless.

In terms of the manifesto thread, this is why I still come to the forum.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Carol » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:11 am

ilikebeans wrote:This is all you need to know (thanks to Woofer):

The reaction by Carol AS Thompson may, however, also be seen from a different perspective. Carol AS Thompson is not a physician and therefore not used to behave properly in the framework of a highly ranked medical journal. Nevertheless, she was brave enough to post her opinion in an unaccustomed environment. In addition, Carol AS Thompson is supposed to be cigarette smoking dependent and therefore her view of the real problem may be blurred.
...
I do want to address the tone of these letters briefly. Apart from the topic, they read almost like Nazi propaganda: a combination of aggression, intolerance, stupidity and fanatism.

It's time to stop giving this attention-whoring, scientist-wannabe bitch what she craves-- more attention.

And I'm not using those derogatory terms flippantly.


Those people behave like NAZI physicians, not scientists. And it's surely no coincidence that doctors had the highest proportion of members of the Nazi Party of any occupation. And you anti-smokers are perfect examples of "aggression, intolerance, stupidity and fanatism." It's time to start ignoring YOU.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Carol » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:16 am

scratch wrote:Popeye, let me make this simple for you. In fact I hope it will be simple enough for Carol, Flanders, and Blask to grasp. I don't like secondhand smoke. I don't like it in restaurants or bars or any other public place. I don't like it whether or not you personally smoke. It's invasive. Care to let me blow my favored choice of smoking material in your face? Your kids? I would hope not. For the record I'm also against letting motorcyclists fire up their choppers and letting them idle in bars. I don't much care what bad habits you and others have, but please keep your recreational odors to yourself.


You have no right to interfere with other peoples' liberty just because you don't like it. You have no genuine reason to justify it, so your demagogues deliberately committed scientific fraud. It's as simple as that. And, for the government to commit fraud in order to deprive us of our liberties is automatically a violation of our rights to the equal protection of the laws. The government is not supposed to be biased in favor of one particular sect or creed to the detriment of others. You are extremely evil people, because you corrupted the government and violated the Constitution.


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