Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

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Stu Levitan
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Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Stu Levitan » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:17 am

Hey Carol, this is for you!

New York City (a/k/a, "greatest city in the world,") bans smoking in 1,700 city parks, and along 14 miles of city beaches. Discuss.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby nevermore » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:00 pm

Stu Levitan wrote: (a/k/a, "greatest city in the world,")

Am I the only one hearing Comic Book Guy's voice when I read that?

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby doppel » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:25 pm

You discuss it, Stu. Or do you have no opinion on this subject and just want to pick a fight with Carol?

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Mean Scenester » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:35 pm

Sounds to me like NYC's air quality issues are solved!

Whatever ... so long as I can still score crack in Central Park. Otherwise, it's just not the NY I remember so fondly. I mean, first they run the dealers, hookers, pimps and CHUDs out of Times Square ...

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Warning: this post contains Robert Palmer-related material

Postby Marvell » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:57 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:I mean, first they run the dealers, hookers, pimps and CHUDs out of Times Square ...


...and into my car!!!

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:33 pm

Now if we could just get rid of those stinky cars, busses and boats that stream by those parks and beaches and the smelly hippies playing hacky sack in them...Nirvana!

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Carol » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:57 am

Bloomberg's Billions Bought the Ban

"According to [New York City] Councilman Allan Jennings, the billionaire mayor promised to pump money into the campaigns of any council member who voted for the 18.5 percent property tax hike... The letter also says that Mayor Michael Bloomberg threatened to fund million dollar campaigns against councilmen who did not vote in favor of his smoking legislation. 'It is evident that you want to control everything with money,' Jennings wrote to the mayor. 'You promised to fund the campaigns of council members who voted for the property tax and your staff threatened council members that you would fund their opponents campaigns of up to $1,000,000 if anyone dared to vote against the smoking-ban law.'" (Billions and Ballots. By Dan McLean. Brooklyn Skyline 2003 Feb. 17.)

"Reversing the Flow of Money"

Mayor Bloomberg's corrupt methods have been revealed concerning the groups lobbying to change the law so he can run for a third term: "Michael R. Bloomberg, who says he strictly separates his philanthropy from his job as mayor of New York, is pressing many of the community, arts and neighborhood groups that rely on his private donations to make the case for his third term, according to interviews with those involved in the effort. As opposition mounts to his plan to ease term limits, those people said, the mayor and his top aides have asked leaders of organizations that receive his largess to express their support for his third-term bid by testifying during public hearings and by personally appealing to undecided members of the City Council. Legislation that would allow him to run for another term is expected to come up for a Council vote as early as next week. The requests have put the groups in an unusual and uncomfortable position, several employees of the groups said. City Hall has not made any explicit threats, they said, but city officials have extraordinary leverage over the groups’ finances. Many have received hundreds of thousands of dollars from Mr. Bloomberg’s philanthropic giving and millions of dollars from city contracts overseen by his staff." And, "Mr. Bloomberg routes the money to the groups through large and technically anonymous donations to the Carnegie Corporation, but it is an open secret that he is a source of the gifts, which generally range from $10,000 to $150,000." "Fred Siegel, a professor of history at Cooper Union who has studied New York City politics for decades, said Mr. Bloomberg had cynically 'reversed the flow of money' in politics to build the illusion, if not the reality, of widespread support. The traditional politicians are bought by special interest groups, but Bloomberg buys special interest groups,' he said." (Bloomberg Enlists His Charities in Bid to Stay. By Michael Barbaro and David W. Chen. New York Times, Oct. 17, 2008.) Of course, it worked the same way for the smoking ban, but the media were Bloomberg's accomplices in that!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/18/nyreg ... imits.html

And Bloomberg funded those phony WHO studies.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Peanutbutter » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:45 am

Enough playing around with these baby steps. Lets just ban it already and start putting these addicts in jail where they belong.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Bland » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:31 am

Peanutbutter wrote:Enough playing around with these baby steps. Lets just ban it already

Exactly. Either it's legal or it ain't.
Peanutbutter wrote: and start putting these addicts in jail where they belong.

Well now you're just being stupid.
I know you think you're clever, but actually, no.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Woofer » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:27 am

OK, maybe I'm just being naive, but aren't smoking bans rooted in the basic grade-school civics principle "your rights end where the rights of others begin?" You may very well have the legal right to engage in a certain behavior, but you lose that right if engaging in it is going to harm someone else. So it really boils down to whether or not you believe second-hand smoke is dangerous. The medical establishment has sufficiently convinced the legislators that the danger is real, and there is really no longer any dispute about the matter, the Carol Thompsons of the world notwithstanding. So you can't smoke in enclosed public places. That said, outdoor smoking bans seem ludicrous-- by that logic, you'd have to ban cars with internal combustion engines from the streets of New York.

P.S. If you're inclined, read the reactions from a couple of folks posting at the British Medical Journal website to Carol's hard line. The one from the BMJ editor is particularly amusing. http://www.bmj.com/content/317/7170/1423/reply

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Carol » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:18 pm

Woofer wrote:OK, maybe I'm just being naive, but aren't smoking bans rooted in the basic grade-school civics principle "your rights end where the rights of others begin?" You may very well have the legal right to engage in a certain behavior, but you lose that right if engaging in it is going to harm someone else. So it really boils down to whether or not you believe second-hand smoke is dangerous. The medical establishment has sufficiently convinced the legislators that the danger is real, and there is really no longer any dispute about the matter, the Carol Thompsons of the world notwithstanding. So you can't smoke in enclosed public places. That said, outdoor smoking bans seem ludicrous-- by that logic, you'd have to ban cars with internal combustion engines from the streets of New York.

P.S. If you're inclined, read the reactions from a couple of folks posting at the British Medical Journal website to Carol's hard line. The one from the BMJ editor is particularly amusing. http://www.bmj.com/content/317/7170/1423/reply


This is typical of your ilk to first resort to attempted personal smears, from the mouths of yet others of your ilk. You expect people to be impressed by corrupt anti-smoker buffoons pretending that real science is "pseudo-science," while passing out lifestyle questionnaires is genuine science. That is denying that viruses and bacteria cause cancer and heart disease, which means that they are frauds and quacks and a menace to society, and only the mentally retarded would believe in them.

The anti-smokers commit flagrant scientific fraud by ignoring more than 50 studies which show that human papillomaviruses cause at least 1/4 of non-small cell lung cancers. Smokers and passive smokers are more likely to have been exposed to this virus for socioeconomic reasons. And the anti-smokers' studies are all based on lifestyle questionnaires, so they're cynically DESIGNED to blame tobacco for all those extra lung cancers that are really caused by HPV. And they commit the same type of fraud with every disease they blame on tobacco.

http://www.smokershistory.com/hpvlungc.htm

And, all their so-called "independent" reports were ring-led by the same guy, Jonathan M. Samet, including the Surgeon General Reports, the EPA report, the IARC report, and the ASHRAE report, and he's now the chairman of the FDA Committee on Tobacco. He and his politically privileged clique exclude all the REAL scientists from their echo chamber. That's how they make their reports "unanimous!"

http://www.smokershistory.com/SGlies.html

For the government to commit fraud to deprive us of our liberties is automatically a violation of our Constitutional rights to the equal protection of the laws, just as much as if it purposely threw innocent people in prison. And for the government to spread lies about phony smoking dangers is terrorism, no different from calling in phony bomb threats. Anyone who believes in these things is a freedom- and Constitution-hating Nazi!

Also, the pseudo-science of lifestyle questionnaires was invented in Nazi Germany. While the Nazis could hide behind the excuse of ignorance, the anti-smokers CANNOT!

Answer the charges, you little slimebag!

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Stu Levitan » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:07 pm

Carol wrote:
This is typical of your ilk to first resort to attempted personal smears, from the mouths of yet others of your ilk. ...

Answer the charges, you little slimebag!


Noted without comment.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby PopeyeTheSailorman » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:45 pm

Last year the New York Times ran a big story about how the New York City smoking ban is routinely ignored in bars and clubs. It is essentially unenforceable. Banning smoking in Parks and Beaches is not going to be enforced. The story also covered other cities where smoking bans are simply ignored and not enforced. That is what happens when government overreaches. I'm from the area and recent trips back home have confirmed the story in the NY times.

Go ahead and gloat if it makes you feel better but I find it counterproductive and it simply agitates certain mentally ill forons, which I believe is your intent with this post.

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby french press » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:06 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Now if we could just get rid of those stinky cars, busses and boats that stream by those parks and beaches and the smelly hippies playing hacky sack in them...Nirvana!



Smells like teen spirit to me!

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Re: Smoking Banned in Parks, at Beaches

Postby Carol » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:09 pm

PopeyeTheSailorman wrote:Last year the New York Times ran a big story about how the New York City smoking ban is routinely ignored in bars and clubs. It is essentially unenforceable. Banning smoking in Parks and Beaches is not going to be enforced. The story also covered other cities where smoking bans are simply ignored and not enforced. That is what happens when government overreaches. I'm from the area and recent trips back home have confirmed the story in the NY times.

Go ahead and gloat if it makes you feel better but I find it counterproductive and it simply agitates certain mentally ill forons, which I believe is your intent with this post.


Here's that famous PC smear tactic again! The politics of personal destruction as the first resort! Oh, and don't forget to give everyone a smarmy little lecture about "civility," too. Then you wonder why we think it's too bad that only one your ilk was shot.


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