Israel's war crimes

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jonnygothispen
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:17 pm

I think if you look at the proportion of crimes committed against Gazans, including the invasion in 1967 and ongoing occupation, that it's those things which have made Hamas tolerable to them.

I'd like to read up a bit more on the history of the last 42 years before making more comments about it, but I have to say it was interesting to learn that Israel allowed no ships into Gazan ports since 1967 until about a year ago. So then you have an ongoing illegal invasion/occupation for a generation, with these kind of restrictions, and you think no animosity should arise as the world looks the other way? Should all of Gaza be punished for the actions of a few, and in regards to fighting an illegal occupation?

Applying your conditions for this debate on America, we would have never come into existence.

International laws mean nothing? wow...That defies almost everything that's happened in the last century in regards to bringing other countries into compliance with some sort of civility as an end result. It sounds more like you've convinced yourself that they mean nothing, and also, you conveniently left out that we have vetoed 65 UN resolutions in regards to Israel's actions, almost always alone.

"In June l967, we had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." -- Menachem Begin in The New York Times, August 21, 1982

And it's been the same ever since then-invasions based on fear of something they had no proof was going to happen. The difference is that while you cannot expect perfection from a whole population, nor could you expect al Qaeda to not try to stimulate an attack from Gaza to provoke Israel, you can expect a Government to act civilly, especially one who gets as much welfare from us as Israel does.

Galoot
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Galoot » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:34 pm

As I expected, Johnny--you absolutely refuse to address the culpability of the Palestinian Arabs. When, since 1948, have they ever tried offering *peace* to the Israelis?

It's absolutely laughable that you claim that the 1967 war was "illegal", when in fact Egypt had closed the Straits of Tiran (in direct opposition to the 1956 armistice), and Nasser had openly declared Egypt to be at war with Israel.

I see why you are considered to be a one-note troll here.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:45 pm

Well, what does Egypt have to do with Palestine now? And why do Begin's comments contradict yours? It seems that Israel's leader would have a bit more information about what was going on than you would, Galoot. So now you're ringing one note but complaining about someone else...

hellyes
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby hellyes » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:32 pm

Galoot wrote:hellyes, just curious--what part of Israel/Palestine do you consider to be "occupied territories", and on what basis? Before 1948, the British governed what is now Israel, and in concert with the UN, proposed dividing the country into a Jewish country and an Arab country. So I'm curious, when did the Palestinian Arabs have control of these territories?

As for "international law", it's pretty much a farce. It rests on the false assumptions that everybody has the same ethics and sense of what should/shouldn't be legal. Also, any legal system is empty and useless unless it is backed up by an executive capable of fully enforcing these laws. It's a straw man, by and large.

Israel exists, that's a fact. It has defended it's right to exist in at least half a dozen wars since 1948, and that in the face of 80 million Arabs who would like nothing better than to wipe it off the face of the earth, and kill every Israeli Jew in the process.

All the Palestinian Arabs have to do, to win themselves a country, is offer peace. If they opted for Ghandi style nonviolent protest against their lack of an independent state, the world would support them in a heartbeat, and Israel would be right there with the rest of the world.

What would it hurt them to try this? Nothing at all, except the loss of their barbaric and violent sense of "honor" that requires never looking "weak". And look where that has gotten them.


Like I said at least 3 times previous READ THE BALFOUR AGREEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. the British got God damn sick of the fucking Zionists and their intimidation - they wanted the US to intervene and take over they were so fucking sick of David Ben-Gurion, Chaim Weizmann and Ze'ev Jabotinsky...fascist Zionists who were all about intimidation. Hell even Winston Churchill got fed up with them.

From the brilliant Israeli author Tom Segev in his book "One Palestine, Complete".

" The British left Palestine because more and more of them had come to realize that THE BALFOUR AGREEMENT HAD BEEN A MISTAKE. The American press and American Zionists are responsible more than anyone else for the present troubles in Palestine".

"The pro-Zionist lobby in the United States had in fact grown stronger since the end of WW 2, and wielded greater influence than ever before. At one stage America seemed to be trying to force Britain to remain in Palestine and reaffirm its support of the Zionist movement, against its will. This additional pressure from abroad convinced the British that in leaving the country they were saving themselves from sinking ever deeper into a quagmire".

"Once the Zionist movement came to Palestine with the intention of creating an independent state with a Jewish majority, war was inevitable".

Takes 2 to tango galoot....your Zionists and their witchcraft is as filthy as any religion in the world today.

Galoot
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Galoot » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:30 pm

hellyes--you, like Johnny, seem to be completely incapable of answering a direct question. I asked you which parts of Palestine you consider to be "occupied territories" that the Jews should leave. If you can't answer, I'm happy to just add you to the ignore list that TDPF has. You, like Johnny, appear to just be another one-note troll.

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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Jazznews » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:22 am

jonnygothispen wrote: I've got people like Noam Chomsky, a Jew, and Robert Fisk on my side. I certainly trust them more than you or MSM. At least Jazznews can cite a few facts to form his/her opinion.


One Jew - wow! :roll:

Yes, that it was the Palestinian leader - the Mufti al-Husseini - who was responsible for destroying the alliance between Arabs and Jews. He was helped by the Nazis. So it was not the Zionsts like you and Hellyes claim.


As far as Kevin Barret goes, I stood up for him because of the way the Isthmus article was written...

I don't know Kevin Barret beyond how I've watched him interact with other people at public events.


Kevin Barret is almost as paranoid and illogical as Alex Jones. They have no proof behind their wild theories.

hellyes
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby hellyes » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:06 am

Galoot wrote:hellyes--you, like Johnny, seem to be completely incapable of answering a direct question. I asked you which parts of Palestine you consider to be "occupied territories" that the Jews should leave. If you can't answer, I'm happy to just add you to the ignore list that TDPF has. You, like Johnny, appear to just be another one-note troll.


Here's one for ya galoot...the only occupied territories that you and jazznonews seem to be occupying is your skulls in your anal canals. You both need to get the hell out of there, there's too much methane in there and it can kill, it's called a confined space. You're the 2 that won't answer the questions...did you ever attempt to read arguably the most detailed book on the "Occupied Territories" called "Lords of The Land" by Idith Zertal and Akiva Edlar??????????????????????????????????????????????????
This new Obama administration has made it a point of contention to NetanYAHOO to stop the settlements (or, if you will, Illegally occupying) in order to achieve peace, because the entire fucking world knows except you and Jazznonews that the only way to peace is a 2 state solution. Hey I got a fucking idea for you 2 Zionist anti-Muslim fascists, the Zionists have already created a concentration camp in the Gaza strip, now all they have to do is add some gas chambers. The Zionists got a good start by dropping White Phosphorus on innocents, burns like a motherfucker ya know? Keep your eyes on the telly boys and watch the messianic settlers keep seizing that land that is not theirs. I'll ask again have you read "Lords of The Land" by Idith Zertal and Akiva Edlar???????????????????????

Jazznonews, yeah the Mufti went on a desperate mission to Hitler to get help. I suppose if fascists/racists were stealing your land you would attempt to enlist the help of anybody like he did. By the way in case you don't know what a book looks like, we completed our own Holocaust in our country with the "Final Solution" on Native Americans. Ain't it no wonder we are consistent with supporting the anti-muslim fascist/zionists in Israel, we've had damn good practice.

hellyes
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby hellyes » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:09 pm

Jazznews wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote: I've got people like Noam Chomsky, a Jew, and Robert Fisk on my side. I certainly trust them more than you or MSM. At least Jazznews can cite a few facts to form his/her opinion.


One Jew - wow! :roll:

Yes, that it was the Palestinian leader - the Mufti al-Husseini - who was responsible for destroying the alliance between Arabs and Jews. He was helped by the Nazis. So it was not the Zionsts like you and Hellyes claim.


As far as Kevin Barret goes, I stood up for him because of the way the Isthmus article was written...

I don't know Kevin Barret beyond how I've watched him interact with other people at public events.


Kevin Barret is almost as paranoid and illogical as Alex Jones. They have no proof behind their wild theories.


Here's a second Jew idiot - Oh I forgot you don't read books by Israeli historians
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=4715

Henry Vilas
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:46 pm

hellyes wrote:Here's a second Jew idiot...

Apparently you don't like Jews. Hellyes or hellno?

hellyes
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby hellyes » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:39 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
hellyes wrote:Here's a second Jew idiot...

Apparently you don't like Jews. Hellyes or hellno?


You also can't comprehend what you read I take it??? I admire many Jews, one of my biggest heroes is Michael Brecker who died last year which I mentioned earlier, didn't read that huh?? But you wouldn't know him....most likely. Just finished reading the biography of Wolfgang Pauli...brilliant man. Don't like radical Zionists though, don't like radical Muslims, don't like radical Catholics, don't like fundamentalist christians either. I take it that you don't like intelligent Jews like Messrs. Pappe, Eldar, Zertal, Chomsky etc. that know the messianic settlers are committing "Ethnic Cleansing" in concert with the fascist/racist Zionist govt. of Israel???? Are you then anti-semitic AND anti-Muslim???? I think that brilliant Jews like Ilan Pappe who have the courage to come forward as Jews and admit the atrocities of his govt. are to be considered heroes in my eyes....don't you??? Next question

Henry Vilas
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:08 pm

hellyes wrote: Next question

Then why didn't you say "Here's a second Zionist idiot" instead?

hellyes
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby hellyes » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:23 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
hellyes wrote: Next question

Then why didn't you say "Here's a second Zionist idiot" instead?


you're correct now that I look at it - I was calling jazznonews the idiot. I should have written "here's a second Jew.....jazznonews idiot

hellyes
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby hellyes » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:49 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
hellyes wrote: Next question

Then why didn't you say "Here's a second Zionist idiot" instead?


Hey henry - I forgot one other of the many incredible gifts the Jews bring to our culture.....comedy, they're the best.....I just fucking love Larry David......"Curb Your Enthusiasm" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That motherfucker is a comedic genius, we need mucho human beings like that on the planet.

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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Jazznews » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:31 pm

hellyes wrote:This new Obama administration has made it a point of contention to NetanYAHOO to stop the settlements (or, if you will, Illegally occupying) in order to achieve peace, because the entire fucking world knows except you and Jazznonews that the only way to peace is a 2 state solution.


I have an Israeli friend who thinks there should be one state that includes everyone - Palestinians too. Of course Hamas would never go for that anymore than extremist Israelis would.

Hey I got a fucking idea for you 2 Zionist anti-Muslim fascists,...

I'm no Zionist nor an I anti-Muslim. I have Muslim friends.


Jazznonews, yeah the Mufti went on a desperate mission to Hitler to get help. I suppose if fascists/racists were stealing your land you would attempt to enlist the help of anybody like he did.

You didn't read the whole post. Arabs and Jews were cooperating but he killed Jews and lied and said the bodies were Arabs killed by Jews, just to get Arabs angry.

There is no excuse for getting Hitler to help, unless you agree with his Final Solution.

Image

jonnygothispen
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:39 pm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 638568.ece

July 5, 2009
Saudis give nod to Israeli raid on Iran
Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv and Sarah Baxter

The head of Mossad, Israel’s overseas intelligence service, has assured Benjamin Netanyahu, its prime minister, that Saudi Arabia would turn a blind eye to Israeli jets flying over the kingdom during any future raid on Iran’s nuclear sites.


You present an interesting case, jazznews. You're against genocide, but for ethnic cleansing. It's kind of confusing.


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