CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

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Stu Levitan
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CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby Stu Levitan » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:35 am

Details here.

Gee, I wonder if anyone will have strong opinions on the matter ....

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby nevermore » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:45 am

I see the madison.com fever swamp is roiling over this story.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby jjoyce » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:55 am

While the housing cops are sniffing around apartments, they could also conduct bed checks!

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby Bwis53 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:59 am

I have an elderly lady friend at Romnes. They have yearly certification inspections and quarterly pest control visits. People know when they are going to be visited. Sometimes I smell stinky stuff. Other times I smell Febreez (even worse!) The offenders get warned and no one's the wiser, but the neighbors. Where are the resources coming from to enforce this rule? Some folks behave in a civilized manner. Other act out like little kids.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:21 pm

I've rented and looked for apartments many times for many years in Madison. Landlords own the place and can dictate what they want. Many landlords would not allow smoking. This is no different. The people living in those apts. really don't have the options I did, but the fact is they are renters.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby TAsunder » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:48 pm

A) the article seems to have content that contradicts one of the people quoted. One guy says "most economically challenged people smoke" and then the article presents statistics that appear to clearly disprove this statement. Strange journalism there...

B) If you ban smoking inside the building, won't people then end up smoking right outside, thereby possibly making any second hand smoke situation far worse for people on the lower floors?

I lived in a dorm during college where people would smoke outside my window. Even though it was closed, there was tons of second hand smoke. I didn't die or anything, but it was kind of annoying. Maybe better windows would have solved this, though.

C) If the logic is that the apartments should be kept in good condition for future tenants or uses, shouldn't smoking just be the tip of the iceberg? Will pets be allowed in the buildings? I assume not based on this reasoning. etc.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby wallrock » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:10 pm

TAsunder wrote:B) If you ban smoking inside the building, won't people then end up smoking right outside, thereby possibly making any second hand smoke situation far worse for people on the lower floors?

I lived in a dorm during college where people would smoke outside my window. Even though it was closed, there was tons of second hand smoke. I didn't die or anything, but it was kind of annoying. Maybe better windows would have solved this, though.

That's a valid point. My place doesn't allow smoking, so when I have a smoke I go out onto my second-story balcony. Unfortunately my neighbors' place sticks out further than mine (~5') and during the warm months when their patio door is open they can get smoke blown towards them.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby doppel » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:45 am

Stu Levitan wrote:Details here.

Gee, I wonder if anyone will have strong opinions on the matter ....


Gee, I wonder too.

It seems like you are the man with the strong opinions, since you brought this up.

" In Madison, CDA member Stuart Levitan proposed the smoke-free policy for the 48-unit apartment complex now under construction on Allied Drive.

"We're spending $9 million to create brand new housing," he said. "Why should we allow something that will create maintenance and custodial costs and be a health hazard?" "

Stu, you went through the sixties. Peace, love, freedom? Didn't you learn anything? You should have at least learned that the government doesn't always do whats best for you when it starts it's a-doing. Ask Paul Soglin how he felt when the city shaved his head. The war on drugs is in it's 37th year, and is only recently crossing our border with lots of live gunfire. Cheney and Bush thought we owned the middle east's oil and we got us a brand new Vietnam.

We should allow something that is legal because it should not be in the cda's authority to tell people what to do in their homes. Telling people what to do in their home is demeaning and wrong. Health hazard? Free choice? Let that hair down Stu, and choose freedom. People don't need Stu Levitan as their doctor, landlord and in-home cop. They have heard of the risks already.

Nine million dollars. Nine big ones. I'm calling the shots around here. I guess, with you, money talks, bullshit walks. The capital costs of a housing project are not wedded to individual freedoms. Unless Stu's shotgun is forcing the issue. Let this one go, pilgrim.

The argument that this will create maintenance and custodial costs is such bullshit I surprised I couldn't smell it over the net. Maybe you have never swept a floor before, but a couple of cigarette butts sweep right up with all the rest of the dirt.

Stop trying to tell other people what to do. You get a little bit of power and think you know what is best for other people. "But, it's for their own good." If they can't follow the rules, then relocation seems to be the final solution. Works for you... Not for me. It is a proposal you ought reconsider.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby Bwis53 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:29 am

Why Paul's head was shaven to ward off "fleas"! At least that was the excuse given... I guess you could call that a "health hazzard".

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby Peanutbutter » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:43 am

Nothing like charity with moral strings attached to it.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby gargantua » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:27 am

TAsunder wrote: I didn't die or anything.


Give it time.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby Stu Levitan » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:02 pm

First, we wouldn't be telling people what they can and can't do in their own homes. These are units the CDA has endeavored to build, at great time, expense and city-wide commitment. They wil belong to the LLC, and it will be the LLC responsible for upkeep and maintenance. If you think "just sweeping up a couple of butts" is the extent of damage smoking does to an apartment, you really don't know much about property management (putting aside what kind of tenant would throw cigarette butts on their floor). A smoker's apartment costs several thousand dollars more to turn over than a non-smoker; that's why so many private sector companies have already gone smoke-free. There is also the very signficant health hazard and extreme diminution of quality of life for non-smoking tenants (who outnumber smokers). This isn't a morality play or some nanny-state government telling people what's best for them (although it's obvious that being a non-smoker is better than being a smoker). This is about us as the public entity that caused these units to be built acting affirmatively to protect our capital investment and ensure a higher quality of life for all our tenants. If someone would rather stay in their 1960s unit and smoke, they can do so; but if they want to move into these brand new units, then they have to agree to certain terms. Their income has to be at a certain level. They have to stay within certain occupancy limits. They have to pay their rent on time. If they're on Section 8, further restrictions apply. And, possibly, they will have to refrain from smoking inside their units (the proposal is to make the units smoke-free, allow smoking on balconies). Seems to me, that's a pretty reasonable trade-off (again, which is why the private sector is moving so aggressively to adopt such policies).

Simple rule of thumb -- if you don't want me and the CDA as your landlord ... don't ask to become our tenant.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby doppel » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:38 pm

Yes, you will be telling people what to do in their homes. It's that simple. They are not the owners of their home, but their government is. And no level of government should be that involved in an individual's private legal conduct .

Pulled right out of your ass.
"A smoker's apartment costs several thousand dollars more to turn over than a non-smoker; "

If extra painting (above and beyond normal wear and dirt) is required due to smoking damage, it can be charged to the security deposit. If you're paying that kind of money to a paint an apartment you probably shouldn't be making any of the decisions. I am pleasantly surprised that you expect people to pay their rent and not so surprised you claim this is not a nanny state issue.

Simple rule of thumb. I from the government and I'm here to help you. You know the rest of the joke. Don't become it. Stu, you just don't get it. You are the government. Maybe private companies legally have the right to these conditions but a publicly funded entity should stay the hell out of peoples private lives. Smoking is a legal choice. Stu, you have become just another bureaucrat. What a waste. You have no business in the private, legal activities of anyone. We will all be better off if you spend your thinking time more wisely.

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby white_rabbit » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:04 pm

So would the CDA evict someone who is found to be smoking in their apartment? Will the CDA refuse to rent to people they suspect of or know to be smokers?

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Re: CDA Mulls Smoking Ban at Allied

Postby Renee Gabel » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:23 pm

Are you going to ban frying foods in the units too? Cooking oil fumes are carcinogenic and cost just as much money to remove.

How about insense? Is that banned?

How are you going to prove a tenant has smoked in the unit?


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