Conservatives culpable for aiding AIDS epidemic

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Do you think American conservatives' actions aided the AIDS pandemic?

Yes, their actions have consequences - mainly for others.
12
100%
No, it's important they control other peoples' sex lives.
0
No votes
No, conservatives are perfect.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 12

AlphaLiberal
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Conservatives culpable for aiding AIDS epidemic

Postby AlphaLiberal » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:07 pm

Millions of people have died of AIDS around the world. In the 1980s, conservatives didn't want to do anything about it because it primarily struck gays. Instead, they joked.

This same crowd tells us they are pro-life while they cut funding for research and prevention that could have saved lives sooner. They STILL refuse to provide funding for condoms, preferring their lectures to life-saving policies. The no-condom policy is leading to more people infected and dying. Millions.

American conservatives, through their bigotry and moralism, have helped AIDS proliferate, while millions died. They owe us all an apology.

(I edited the thread title. Asking for an apology is not sufficient.)
Last edited by AlphaLiberal on Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby shelly » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:09 am

So were you watching the AIDS program on PBS last night? I did too, unbelievable (sp?).

A trivial association, but I remember Doonesbury of the day, with the ex-Republican (Andy?) dying from AIDS and saying from his bed how he couldn't believe that Reagan has gotten through 8 years of the AIDS epidemic without even once saying "AIDS" by name. Don't know if that is specifically true, but it highlights how Reagan tried his hardest to just ignore it.

I thought an interesting point on the origins of HIV was made when they said that many chimpanzee to human transmissions of SIV have probably occurred, but it may have been one specific infection event of one person that lead to an SIV virus evolving to HIV.

I was also amazed to remember how horrible it was for AIDS patients in the early years (not that it is easy now). Seeing the coverage of the angry parents shouting at the people as they removed their kid from school was painful. And you could just feel the anger in many of the interviewees as they described how they were treated.

I am looking forward to part 2 tonight.

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Postby AlphaLiberal » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:09 am

I missed most of part one, but someone told me about it and that's what prompted this post.

Republicans should be absolutely flailed with this argument. Their actions were immoral and led to more people dying.

Or would some conservative like to offer a different explanation?

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Postby Ned Flanders » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:04 am

This is one of the most insanely stupid threads I've seen here in awhile.

And that's saying a lot.

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Postby AlphaLiberal » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:22 am

Ned Flanders wrote:This is one of the most insanely stupid threads I've seen here in awhile.

And that's saying a lot.

Actually, that's not saying anything. I put good solid reasons why conservative efforts to block prevention and research have helped the disease flourish. You don't seem to have any logic to offer in response. Care to try again?

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Postby gargantua » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:56 am

AlphaLiberal wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:This is one of the most insanely stupid threads I've seen here in awhile.

And that's saying a lot.

Actually, that's not saying anything. I put good solid reasons why conservative efforts to block prevention and research have helped the disease flourish. You don't seem to have any logic to offer in response. Care to try again?


Don't hold your breath waiting for anything from this guy......

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Postby Ned Flanders » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:16 am

It's a disease, not a politcal movement which is how it was treated by the "left" and "AIDs Activists" from day one. I suggest reading "And the Band Played On" which is a fairly balanced view of the early days of the disease.

Activists fought against closing the bath houses in SF. The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner. I'd argue that efforts like these lead to more suffering than anything that Reagan did or didn't do.

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Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:25 am

Ned Flanders wrote:Activists fought against closing the bath houses in SF. The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner. I'd argue that efforts like these lead to more suffering than anything that Reagan did or didn't do.


Yeah, but Flanders, it's a documented fact that you're a fucking moron.

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Postby Ned Flanders » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:43 am

pjbogart wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Activists fought against closing the bath houses in SF. The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner. I'd argue that efforts like these lead to more suffering than anything that Reagan did or didn't do.


Yeah, but Flanders, it's a documented fact that you're a fucking moron.


Wow. Off your meds again? I've given two concrete examples. Care to respond to them?

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Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:03 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
pjbogart wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Activists fought against closing the bath houses in SF. The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner. I'd argue that efforts like these lead to more suffering than anything that Reagan did or didn't do.


Yeah, but Flanders, it's a documented fact that you're a fucking moron.


Wow. Off your meds again? I've given two concrete examples. Care to respond to them?


Ok, I'll bite, and when I'm done I'd like you to prove that purple flying monkeys haven't taken over the Kremlin.

First off, reviews of "And the Band Played On," are pretty consistent in claiming that the author lays quite a bit of blame for AIDS epidemic on the inaction of the Reagan administration. Did you read the book? I didn't, but I find it hard to believe that everyone seemed to interpret the book as a scathing rebuke of Reagan and you just managed to find some passages with which to lay the blame at the feet of the homosexual community. I'm not surprised, you're a bit of a moron.

Secondly, you claim that activists fighting to keep bathhouses open had a more detrimental impact than government inaction. I'm sorry, but I don't know how to respond to this. It's simply so ludicrous that it could only have been penned by an utter fucking moron.

Thirdly, you blame these same activists for diverting resources from appropriate channels through their false claims that AIDS is a disease that affects the general public. Are you saying that AIDS doesn't affect the general public? The activists were right, ya nitwit. People ignored AIDS and they ignored the activists until, as predicted, it began affecting the general public.

Now, about those purple flying monkeys...

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Postby Marvell » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:04 pm

Ned Flanders wrote: The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner.


I see.

So the 38.6 million people world-wide currently living with AIDS (Source: UNAIDS/WHO 2006 Report on the global AIDS epidemic ) all went to the same San Francisco bath houses?

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Postby Ned Flanders » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:08 pm

Marvell wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote: The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner.


I see.

So the 38.6 million people world-wide currently living with AIDS (Source: UNAIDS/WHO 2006 Report on the global AIDS epidemic ) all went to the same San Francisco bath houses?


Oh, so Reagan/Bush I/Bubba get's a pass/Bush II are to blame for worldwide AIDs cases? Even though the disease originated in Africa?

Makes perfect sense to me. Sure the left hasn't turned AIDs into a political football. Sure they haven't :roll:

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Postby pjbogart » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:14 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Oh, so Reagan/Bush I/Bubba get's a pass/Bush II are to blame for worldwide AIDs cases? Even though the disease originated in Africa?


Well, there you have it. AIDS originated in Africa, so it's not our responsibility to take preventative measures. From now on, before we fund any medical research, we first have to establish that the disease originated in the United States. We really can't bother ourselves with foreign diseases, as they are clearly less dangerous than our homegrown ones.

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Postby Marvell » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:15 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
Marvell wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote: The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner.


I see.

So the 38.6 million people world-wide currently living with AIDS (Source: UNAIDS/WHO 2006 Report on the global AIDS epidemic ) all went to the same San Francisco bath houses?


Oh, so Reagan/Bush I/Bubba get's a pass/Bush II are to blame for worldwide AIDs cases? Even though the disease originated in Africa?

Makes perfect sense to me.


Well, that's odd - since that isn't even remotely what I said.

You (Ned Flanders) say - in the section I quoted above - "The same groups (e.g. those evil, evil fags) tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case."

Which any cursory glance at AIDS infection statistics clearly shows is a bunch of utter bullshit.

Not that a conservative would ever use AIDS as a political football...or be a mendacious clot of sniggering ignorance...

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Postby Ned Flanders » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:18 pm

pjbogart wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:
pjbogart wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Activists fought against closing the bath houses in SF. The same groups tried to sell this as a disease that would affect the general public when that clearly wasn't the case, confusing people and redirecting efforts in an inefficient manner. I'd argue that efforts like these lead to more suffering than anything that Reagan did or didn't do.


Yeah, but Flanders, it's a documented fact that you're a fucking moron.


Wow. Off your meds again? I've given two concrete examples. Care to respond to them?


Ok, I'll bite, and when I'm done I'd like you to prove that purple flying monkeys haven't taken over the Kremlin.

First off, reviews of "And the Band Played On," are pretty consistent in claiming that the author lays quite a bit of blame for AIDS epidemic on the inaction of the Reagan administration. Did you read the book? I didn't, but I find it hard to believe that everyone seemed to interpret the book as a scathing rebuke of Reagan and you just managed to find some passages with which to lay the blame at the feet of the homosexual community. I'm not surprised, you're a bit of a moron.

Secondly, you claim that activists fighting to keep bathhouses open had a more detrimental impact than government inaction. I'm sorry, but I don't know how to respond to this. It's simply so ludicrous that it could only have been penned by an utter fucking moron.

Thirdly, you blame these same activists for diverting resources from appropriate channels through their false claims that AIDS is a disease that affects the general public. Are you saying that AIDS doesn't affect the general public? The activists were right, ya nitwit. People ignored AIDS and they ignored the activists until, as predicted, it began affecting the general public.

Now, about those purple flying monkeys...


AIDs was spreading in the bath houses, not in city hall or the Oval Office Pasteur. It would have been prudent to close them until the disease was under control.

AIDs affects then general public at much lower rates than gay men or IV drug users in the U.S. It would be like warning men about breast cancer. Sure, some men get it, but the vast majority of the cases involve women.
But the activist insisted on alarming the general public in order to remove the stigma. In doing that, they took much of the concentration from the gay community.


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