Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?
Ninja
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby Ninja » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:30 pm

Huckleby wrote:I can look around and see that the 2-hour parking system works rather well.


See, but it doesn't. That's why, for an extra annual fee, the city will permit certain individuals to ignore the two-hour limits and park in such spots for up to two days.

Even this simple system that you think works so well would be dysfunctional if it didn't include some privatization of on-street parking, at least for a limited time, on a rolling basis. I don't see how it's avoidable in a city.

Huckleby
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby Huckleby » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:30 pm

green union terrace chair wrote: It's those people who are trying to limit and control my freedom of movement who are preventing me from parking on State Street in front of the Orpheum!


Uhhh, no, I wouldn't object to all no-parking zones. Obviously State Street is such a special case.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:31 pm

Stebben84 wrote:And here is a huge flaw in the pay for parking scam. There is one spot in front of my house and my neighbor parks in front of it because there is no space in front of their house. There is a bus stop that takes away the corner house and my neighbor's spot. The corner house would get first dibs on the cross street parking, I would get dibs on my spot, so what does my neighbor do? They get screwed.
Do you really see this as "a huge flaw"? Can you not imagine any way that it might be resolved to the agreement of all parties involved?

Huckleby
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby Huckleby » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:32 pm

Ninja wrote:
Huckleby wrote:I can look around and see that the 2-hour parking system works rather well.


See, but it doesn't. That's why, for an extra annual fee, the city will permit certain individuals to ignore the two-hour limits and park in such spots for up to two days.


I am including this accommodation in my approval of the current system. Allowing local residents extra privileges in their neighborhood makes sense.

Lets expand this working system to more spaces.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:39 pm

snoqueen wrote:
Legally-mandated creation of "generous parking opportunity" will lead to more parking, more cars, and dependence thereon. How do I know this is true? It already happened.


Actually, trends are moving the other way. The youngest generation of independent people of driving age seems much less interested in car ownership than previous generations. This has automakers in a snit, but suits downtown living very well.

Once source, of many:
http://streetsblog.net/2010/11/05/young ... rship-meh/

Patience, Artie, patience. These things work themselves out over the long run.
You linked an article that directly confirms my quoted claim, which was about the past, not the present or future. From your article:
...we, as a society, have made the collective decision to design our cities in such a way as to essentially force citizens to make a substantial private purchase in order to function. Actually I think it’s more accurate to say that several generations ago people made that collective decision and we are now all living with it to this day.

Anyway, that's a great blog - lots to learn. Do a search for "parking" and find a number of articles that support dynamic-price parking systems.

Here is one that discusses the issue of inequality in a rigorous fee-for-parking system.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:45 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Ninja wrote:
Huckleby wrote:I can look around and see that the 2-hour parking system works rather well.


See, but it doesn't. That's why, for an extra annual fee, the city will permit certain individuals to ignore the two-hour limits and park in such spots for up to two days.


I am including this accommodation in my approval of the current system. Allowing local residents extra privileges in their neighborhood makes sense.

Lets expand this working system to more spaces.

Like I said, exquisitely wrong.

Huck - I challenge you to name one specific block or section of street in Madison that is currently "No Parking" that could be opened to "2-hour parking". Estimate how many spots that would create.

Huckleby
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby Huckleby » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:50 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:Here is one that discusses the issue of inequality in a rigorous fee-for-parking system.


That article makes the same false arguments that you have. Parking is not a right (nobody claimed it so.) Let low income people find another way to get around.

The issue of privatizing parking is a big philosophical argument.

I am surprised that the issue of allowing more off-street parking, under the current system, is objectionable.

Huckleby
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby Huckleby » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:53 pm

ArturoBandini wrote: Huck - I challenge you to name one specific block or section of street in Madison that is currently "No Parking" that could be opened to "2-hour parking". Estimate how many spots that would create.


Whether 1 or 10,000 more spaces can be created, I am for doing it.

Other cities have parking on both sides of streets much more frequently. It restricts vision a bit, you have to drive slower and more carefully. I'm for making that trade-off.

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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby snoqueen » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:55 pm

AB: I'm not against fee-for-parking or "dynamic-price parking systems," graduated fees including the possibility of zero, or graduated time allowances. I thought that was a good blog too, and I don't see what the problem is.

There are a lot of other problems being discussed in this topic, but that isn't one of them as far as I'm concerned.

Go ahead and argue with Huckleby and HV. As long as we aren't planning to privatize street parking or let some business skim profits off what is now a functioning citizen/government arrangement, I'm not a party to whatever the disagreement is.

Parking and cars in urban areas is a dynamic, not static, system. Both the number/kind of cars and the amount/cost of parking are continually changing relative to one another and to lots of other variables. I'm not dissatisfied with that situation and see no reason to throw a wrench into the works by instituting some idealistic, ideologically-based new system.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:01 pm

Huckleby wrote:Whether 1 or 10,000 more spaces can be created, I am for doing it.
Name a block or address where a spot can be created.

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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:04 pm

Huckleby wrote:I am surprised that the issue of allowing more off-street parking, under the current system, is objectionable.
When you say "off-street parking", do you mean "parking along the sides of streets"? Because that's what you seem to be talking about. I think that it's better referred to as "street parking", or even "on-street parking" since, you know, it's on the actual surface of the street.

Off-street parking refers to garages, driveways, and parking lots.

Huckleby
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby Huckleby » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:17 pm

ArturoBandini wrote: Off-street parking refers to garages, driveways, and parking lots.


right, I meant on-street parking. Perhaps I got into that pattern and it made my posts unreadable.

As far as what streets can add more parking, there are so many.
How about Vilas Avenue between Park & Randall. I can't remember, I think that has parking on one side of street only for many blocks, the street is wide enough to support a second parking lane. The city is full of unjustifiable "no parking" blocks.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:28 pm

Bing Maps shows cars parked on both sides of the street along that section.
Vilas Avenue, Madison, WI

Huckleby
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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby Huckleby » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:36 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:Bing Maps shows cars parked on both sides of the street along that section.
Vilas Avenue, Madison, WI


It is hard to see, some blocks have parking on both sides, some blocks not. Similar with Mound, a block over. I don't believe that little dead-end block of charter there allows any parking.

To give you examples, I would have to drive around and take notes. I see "no parking" stretches frequently. It's different in other cities, I visit Evanston, Illinois frequently, where cars pack-in much more.

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Re: Coneheads: "No parking in front of MY house"

Postby fennel » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:01 pm

Huckleby wrote:The city is full of unjustifiable "no parking" blocks.
I think it's the reverse. The City government has put off necessary parking restrictions (in deference to the illusion of some new arrivals) that streets are necessarily parking lots, in addition to their ancillary role as conduits of travel.

Harvey street is an example where two-sided parking is allowed but where no large emergency vehicle could possibly get through for a good portion of a snowy winter. And even in summer, it's often a defacto one-lane street. (But certainly not labelled as such.)

In my neighborhood, there is at least one designated collector street (which, here, is an alternate route for fire trucks) that sometimes can't even accommodate two passing conventional passenger sedans in the summer, to say nothing of a snowy winter — where cars may be ticketed but never towed.

In the winter, it's a two-lane street, or a one-lane street, or a zero-lane street. The offical approach seesm to be Let's just hope it works itself out ...


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