North Sherman Avenue Proposal

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Sustain-a-Billy
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby Sustain-a-Billy » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Notice to anyone who posted on this topic (even though its been a while, I'm hoping you might get a heads up here...)- the Sherman Business Association is trying to fight the implementation of this project right now (June 2013). Please, please, please, if you support these changes on Sherman, which it looks like the majority of you do, contact Alder Larry Palm and remind him that you still support this move and that the decision was already made and needs to move forward without further delay.

As many of you pointed out, it's time to make this change for a better, safer, more approachable street that connects us with the rest of Madison. Please do not remain silent and let the business association get away with bullying their way through this. Thank you!

david cohen
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby david cohen » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Hmmmm...like the Northside Planning Council bullied their way into making the changes in the first place? Yesterday's train left a traffic backup that was 7 blocks long, and that was with TWO lanes of traffic. I'm hardly a pro-business type of guy, but I can fully understand why, in this case, the business folks are livid. I don't think they can prevail unless they get an injunction of some sorts. As i have said all along, I just hope one of my nice neighbors doesn't get killed biking on Sherman, even with a bike lane.

Stebben84
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:25 pm

david cohen wrote: As i have said all along, I just hope one of my nice neighbors doesn't get killed biking on Sherman, even with a bike lane.


Or Johnson, or University, or Monona Drive, or East Wash, or Dayton, or...

david cohen wrote:Yesterday's train left a traffic backup that was 7 blocks long, and that was with TWO lanes of traffic.


Can you explain to me WTF a train has to do with anything. Traffic is going to be backed up no matter how many lanes. This makes no sense.

robbie webber
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby robbie webber » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:09 pm

Although this article is actually about parking, not lane configuration, it gets to some of the same points: businesses are going to be fine when there are more bicyclists and pedestrians and slower car traffic.

Note that is also points out that people who walk to a business spend the most at local businesses, followed by transit users, then bicyclists, and far behind, car drivers. Sometimes the businesses think the folks not using a car aren't buying much, because they tend to make smaller purchases each time they visit. But they make more visits, and the total spent adds up to more than those that come by car.

This has been shown over and over again. When one is driving, it's just as easy to drive all the way to the big box store or the restaurant across town. But when one walks or bikes, the local places are much more attractive.

And one final update. The Maple Bluff Village Board passed a reconfiguration of their portion of Sherman Ave unanimously. Apparently, they started hearing from the older residents that wanted to be able to safe cross the street to get to the stores and amenities. This reconfiguration is also going to make it much easier for people to get in and out of Maple Bluff by car, because that center turn lane will be safer than sitting in a "through" lane waiting to turn left. And the center turn lane can also be used to turn left out of side streets.

Who says the street is "losing a lane?" As far as I can see, it is going from four to five: two through driving lanes, two bike lanes, and a center turn lane.

david cohen
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby david cohen » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:24 pm

simple math Stebben...cutting the number of lanes in half will double the traffic back up at the tracks.

Henry Vilas
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:27 pm

david cohen wrote:simple math Stebben...cutting the number of lanes in half will double the traffic back up at the tracks.

Only if you assume those who use Sherman as a commuter route won't take an alternative in and out of Madison, such as Northport to Packers.

fennel
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby fennel » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:30 pm

It seems to me that this reconfiguration has the potential to make the north end less of an archipelago, since it will have a more vital thread connecting it to the rest of city.

As it is now, Sherman is like fly-over country.

snoqueen
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:37 pm

Either that, or a cool little less-visited island of not-quite-Madison with a beautiful lakeshore, Cherokee Marsh, Governor's Island, Warner Park, and a bunch of other delights the rest of the city can only dream about. Be careful what you wish for...

Stebben84
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:52 pm

david cohen wrote:simple math Stebben...cutting the number of lanes in half will double the traffic back up at the tracks.


I'll do the math. Ten cars pull up to the tracks when a train is going through. Two lanes means cars are backed up five deep. One lane means cars are backed up ten deep. There are still ten cars that have to get through. It doesn't double the traffic. It's still ten cars. The time it takes for those two scenarios to get to full speed is maybe at best a matter of minutes. Double it and it's a few more minutes.

Sorry, but this is a poor scenario for not wanting to change Sherman. Bike lanes will make it safer for cyclists and the other changes will make it safer for pedestrians. Turn lanes will make traffic move quicker. More people may use other driving routes because of the one lane. What part of this sucks for the people who live near or on that street?

fennel
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby fennel » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:10 pm

snoqueen wrote:Be careful what you wish for...

Imagine what a streetcar would do. "Hoi Polloi Express!"

(But yeah, I think I know what you mean.)

rabble
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby rabble » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Okay I've done some hunting around and so far haven't come up with any dates yet. I've found one article that says No date has been set for changing the lane structure, but it is expected to happen this summer.\

Anybody know if that's still the plan? They're going to repaint this summer?

david cohen
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby david cohen » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:35 am

I haven't seen a date for the changes either, only that it will be done by the fall. As far as folks who reside on Sherman, it remains to be seen if this new traffic pattern will make it easier or harder to back out of their driveways into traffic. When they did the test 4 or 5 summers ago, they complained it made it more difficult. It will be very interesting to see if folks can handle that middle left turn lane this time around. During the test period, it was a mess- primarily because folks didn't get all the way into the middle lane when executing a left turn, so the back of their vehicle actually impeded traffic in the only through lane available. In turn, this caused some accidents.

gargantua
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby gargantua » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:58 am

david cohen wrote:When they did the test 4 or 5 summers ago, they complained it made it more difficult. It will be very interesting to see if folks can handle that middle left turn lane this time around. During the test period, it was a mess- primarily because folks didn't get all the way into the middle lane when executing a left turn, so the back of their vehicle actually impeded traffic in the only through lane available. In turn, this caused some accidents.

I've seen this happen in other places and it drives me nuts. Makes me wish my car was weaponized to disintegrate the protuding part of the turning car.

Ninja
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby Ninja » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:34 pm

Sustain-a-Billy wrote:Please do not remain silent and let the business association get away with bullying their way through this.


That's hilarious.

Stebben84
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Re: North Sherman Avenue Proposal

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:46 pm

Ninja wrote:That's hilarious.


What's hilarious is that we've now had 2 different article refuting your business loss claims and you've come up with nothing but your opinion. Now that's hilarious.


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