Crosswalk Talk

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?
Crockett
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby Crockett » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:15 pm

rabble wrote:
Crockett wrote:Or you can save a tremendous amount of time, money, aggravation and 'education/transition' accidents and just put up a damn stoplight.

They have amazing new technology that makes the stoplight go red only when a pedestrian pushes a button. What a world.

You want to replace every crosswalk with a stoplight?

Think about that a minute.


Not every, only the ones on very busy roads where it can take a long time to get a gap in traffic. On the other roads peds can merely wait until there's a gap. Like you're taught when you're four years old.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:17 pm

jman111 wrote:I'm curious, Artie. Do you feel the same about cops with Radar/Laser on highways? How about cops watching for bicyclists at stop signs?
It depends on what we're talking about. I have no problem with police enforcing the law and issuing penalties for violations*. My contention is that they shouldn't be doing so while claiming that their primary motivation is "educating the public". "Educating the public" doesn't necessitate fining anyone. Here is the quote from the article, to make it clear what I'm objecting to:
"The public will call it a sting and go as far as to call it entrapment, but we see it as pedestrian safety and driver education," says Tripke. "When we pull drivers over we talk to them about what the law is." And they issue a ticket for $145.50.

jman111 wrote:As far as "teaching opportunities" go, would we be discussing the issue if not for the operation?
It's an issue that I've discussed at length with friends in person and considered bringing it up here. And the article wasn't entirely about the duck walking operation. So, to answer your question, I'm going with "maybe".

*Let's set aside the question of whether government-run tax-funded police are a legitimate means of enforcing roadway behavior, because some mechanism will regulate roadway behavior regardless of who owns the road or how it was paid for etc.

Stebben84
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:19 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:It's not always stupid. I've crossed Monroe at Trader Joe's on bike and on foot many times. If you wait for a total break in traffic, you might have to wait a long time, especially at rush hour. You just have to take a step into the crosswalk, watch to make sure that drivers see you, then start walking. That said, you probably shouldn't do so in front a Miller Lite delivery truck going downhill at 45 mph. Wait until there is a Honda or something, then make your move.


Monroe is a tricky street. I don't like driving down there because you have too many people abusing your very logical reasoning. So many people I see grab a flag(which I hate) and just start walking. No stopping to wait and see if it's a good time, just grab and go. You know, the speed limit is still 25 and I've had to come to some pretty scary halts because of someone darting into traffic.

rabble
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby rabble » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:20 pm

Crockett wrote:
rabble wrote:You want to replace every crosswalk with a stoplight?

Think about that a minute.


Not every, only the ones on very busy roads where it can take a long time to get a gap in traffic. On the other roads peds can merely wait until there's a gap. Like you're taught when you're four years old.

So that's what, four or five more lights just on Monroe street? How many on Regent? Atwood? Willy?

Crockett
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby Crockett » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:23 pm

rabble wrote:
Crockett wrote:
rabble wrote:You want to replace every crosswalk with a stoplight?

Think about that a minute.


Not every, only the ones on very busy roads where it can take a long time to get a gap in traffic. On the other roads peds can merely wait until there's a gap. Like you're taught when you're four years old.

So that's what, four or five more lights just on Monroe street? How many on Regent? Atwood? Willy?


You can't walk three 'blocks' (and they're hardly 'blocks') to a crosswalk? You sound like the dude in the article who can't catch his bus...

ArturoBandini
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:26 pm

Stebben84 wrote:So many people I see grab a flag(which I hate) and just start walking. No stopping to wait and see if it's a good time, just grab and go.
Why do you hate the flags? I suppose that they do grant some sense of false security to the flag waver, but they might also grant some degree of actual security (being more visible than the average pedestrian's shirt or pants). I've been known to flamboyantly wave the flag while crossing Monroe, mostly just to embarrass whoever I'm walking with.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:29 pm

Crockett wrote:You can't walk three 'blocks' (and they're hardly 'blocks') to a crosswalk? You sound like the dude in the article who can't catch his bus...
Huh? I thought you were just making the argument that all the crosswalks should be replaced with stoplights.

We really don't need more stoplights.

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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:33 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:So many people I see grab a flag(which I hate) and just start walking. No stopping to wait and see if it's a good time, just grab and go.
Why do you hate the flags? I suppose that they do grant some sense of false security to the flag waver, but they might also grant some degree of actual security (being more visible than the average pedestrian's shirt or pants). I've been known to flamboyantly wave the flag while crossing Monroe, mostly just to embarrass whoever I'm walking with.


It's the false sense of security. The fact that you wave the flag is good. Unfortunately most people don't and just "grab and walk" Maybe with some more education it would work better.

By the way, the Zzzzzz... quote really fucks with my browser and I don't like it.

ArturoBandini
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Yes, "false sense of security" is better wording. My "sense of false security" doesn't really make any sense :)

Yep, that zzz string is too damn long. Does it even go with this thread? Being a quote, where did it appear to begin with?

Crockett
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby Crockett » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:39 pm

A crosswalk without a stoplight or stop sign is merely an intersection. There may be paint on the road but that means nothing without some form of higher traffic-calming authority like a stop sign or light.

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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby jman111 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:40 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:Yep, that zzz string is too damn long. Does it even go with this thread? Being a quote, where did it appear to begin with?

PB's trying to make a point about off-topic posts.
It seems to me that all he is actually making is an ass of himself.

seemunkyz
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby seemunkyz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:41 pm

This is a sensitive issue, since in a town like this most of us play both roles.

I just wanted to share an incident that happened to me this morning. I was turning left from Bassett St. onto Dayton St. after coming off of Johnson. There was a pedestrian about to enter the crosswalk, so I stopped. He, likely because most drivers don't, assumed I wasn't going to. After waiting a significant amount of time(significant considering there were cars behind me, as well as others waiting to turn off of Dayton) I realised he wasn't going to go. As I started to go, so did he. I felt bad about it, but I already hit the gas and wasn't about to risk another car ramming me. Now, if he had just kept walking, everything would have been ok and no one would have been held up. But because drivers don't normally stop, there was this preconception of what was going to happen, even though it was wrong.

But other times I have not stopped because the pedestrian was well on the sidewalk, and not near crossing, where they were mad at me for not stopping.

Then I can turn around and tell you about the scenario where I was a pedestrain crossing Mineral Point Rd., with a walk sign, and a lady seriously would have run into me had I not seen her turning right. (We were both waiting at the corner a while for the light to change before she went. She had plenty of time to see me.)

Then there is the ever dangerous situation where someone in one lane stops, while everyone in the other three do not. In this case is the pedestrian supposed to catch the attention of 4 lanes of traffic? Yes, but it is harder than it sounds, and it even sounds hard!

I think the best course of action for this enforcement and educational team, is to enforce such laws year round. If people knew that at any point they could get a ticket, they would likely stop more often.

Also, MPD, if you do something like this, please don't put out a news release about where you are enforcing. I read the traffic enforcement updates all the time that tell me where not to speed. Since then, I have never been suprised by a cop with a radar gun. Did it keep me from speeding? Yes, but just for one day. Just like these pedestrian safety initiatives. Will people likely start stopping for pedestrians on Monroe because of this? Likely, yes, but for two weeks until no one remembers.

And yes, it is hard to not notice the boobs on the woman in the illustration. No wonder she has trouble dodging cars, she must have awful posture. What I also noticed is that the guy is bolting the heck out of there. Don't leave her behind, she can't move that fast with those boobs!

seemunkyz
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby seemunkyz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Crockett wrote:
You can't walk three 'blocks' (and they're hardly 'blocks') to a crosswalk? You sound like the dude in the article who can't catch his bus...


I'm slightly disappointed in myself to say that I have to agree with this. If you can't walk three blocks, you need to do one or both of two things.

1) Drive/Call a Cab

2) Get in shape.

Did you not expect to be delayed a few minutes? It takes more time to walk places, leave earlier for your bus next time. Or get on a bike, the bus will let you bring it with you! Just make sure to stop at stop signs in Shorewood.

Between this and the bike thread I'm getting kind of sick and tired of how everyone feels like the laws need to be changed for their convenience. Oh no! I have to stop at a stop sign!? Oh no, the pedestrian walked out in front of me! Oh no, I have to go three blocks out of my way! Whiners.
You know what, there are 7 billion people on this planet, and not everyone will get their way. Just shut up and follow the law! And if the other guy isn't following the law, call the cops. The cops won't do anything about it? Too bad. Just be glad that your biggest concern is whether or not that car is going to stop, and not how that rebel group just raped your wife and kidnapped your son into forced labor.

Stebben84
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:08 pm

seemunkyz wrote: Oh no! I have to stop at a stop sign!? Oh no, the pedestrian walked out in front of me!


So you come to a full and complete stop in your car every single time you are at a stop sign. Look both ways(even at a four way) then go. I call bullshit.

As far as that pedestrian, like I said, I have had plenty walk right out in front of my car traveling at 20 - 25 with no warning. Such as walking parallel to Monroe and as you get to the crosswalk turn and walk out into Monroe.
People do that and if you think it's ok, then you're creating part of the problem.

seemunkyz
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Re: Crosswalk Talk

Postby seemunkyz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:40 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
seemunkyz wrote: Oh no! I have to stop at a stop sign!? Oh no, the pedestrian walked out in front of me!


So you come to a full and complete stop in your car every single time you are at a stop sign. Look both ways(even at a four way) then go. I call bullshit.

As far as that pedestrian, like I said, I have had plenty walk right out in front of my car traveling at 20 - 25 with no warning. Such as walking parallel to Monroe and as you get to the crosswalk turn and walk out into Monroe.
People do that and if you think it's ok, then you're creating part of the problem.


Well, thanks for pointing out the one part of my post that actually didn't have anything to do with the original point, but since you did, I call bullshit on your bullshit. I think we've been over this in the bike thread. Yes, I stop when a sign or light indicates I am supposed to. This is whether I am walking, biking, or driving. Yes I look both ways when I am at a 4 way stop. Why? Because in this town you never know when a bike or ped will jut out in front of you. Do I complain about it? No, because it's the freakin' law, and I would feel awful if I took out a pedestrian.

As far as the pedestrian you speak of, I call more bullshit on your bullshit. It doesn't matter what YOU think the problem is, or what is convenient for YOU. What matters is what the LAW is, and the LAW says you are supposed to stop for the idiot who walks out in front of you without looking, even if he is an idiot. Bottom line is that had you struck and killed the pedestrian, we wouldn't be having this conversation because you'd be in jail for manslaughter.

Once again, stop whining and just stop when you're legally obligated. And to the pedestrian that Stebben is going to run over on his way home tonight, when he doesn't stop, just shut up, suck it up, and be glad he didn't kill you. Or walk the three blocks to a stop light.


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